Imane Khelif

[LHayday]

Just reading the thread on here for the first time. What I fail to understand is why so many contributors are so desperate for her to be a man. Someone who has lived their entire life as a woman. Beggars belief.

Remember: testicles don't make one less of a 'woman'!
'Women' can suffer from cryptorchidism and/or male-level testosterone, it's a well known (and possibly IOC approved) 'fact'.

No female athletes have to reduce their testosterone to compete in female sports.

I doubt anyone is taking the IBA's word "as god," it's just that, if there were results with XX, contrary to what the IBA says they have, one wonders where they are.

"In May 2022, during the IBA women’s world championship in Istanbul, Lin and Khelif underwent chromosome tests, which were processed locally at a lab.
IBA minutes from March 25, 2023, the day before that tournament closed, indicate the results of the 2022 worlds tests “were received only upon the conclusion of the event, hence the athletes were not disqualified back then.”
Again, the next world championships would be in March 2023 in New Delhi. Why were both athletes allowed to take part?
“Another test was not possible to conduct when the athletes were outside IBA control until they arrived to New Delhi,” the minutes read.
In New Delhi, another test for each, “to reconfirm the findings of the initial test, which it did,” according to the June 2023 letter the IBA sent to the IOC.
The New Delhi lab reports for both Khelif and Lin say the same thing:
Result Summary: “Abnormal”
Interpretation: “Chromosomal analysis reveals Male karyotype.”
A karyotype means an individual’s complete set of chromosomes. Females have XX chromosomes, males XY.
The lab results for each athlete depict the XY chromosomes photographically.
The IOC asserts both athletes were DQ’d without due process.
The IBA minutes do say, as the IOC has said, that the decision to disqualify was made by the IBA secretary general at the time and that the board was asked to ratify that move.
At the same time, the minutes also make clear that – in the case of Khelif – the acting Algerian ambassador was present at that March 25, 2023, meeting and “invited to present the Algerian position and requested a second opinion on the issue.”
A majority of the board voted to approve the disqualifications, with one abstention and one no, Jose Laureano of Puerto Rico. Laureano then suggested that the IBA establish a “clear procedure on gender testing.” The new rules were in place by May.
The IBA said in a statement that Lin did not appeal the IBA disqualification to the Swiss-based Court of Arbitration for Sport, “thus rendering the decision legally binding.”
Khelif, the IBA said, initially lodged an appeal with CAS but dropped the case, “also making the IBA decision legally binding.”

IBA letter to IOC, June 2023: Boxer's 'DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes' | 3 Wire Sports

And IMO... the reason they haven't produced XX results out of a hat is because they want to continue the precedent set by Semenya that XY athletes can be 'women' for sports purposes. Because they are more likely to win. YMMV.

And again,

We have two tests from independent labs in different countries, and the results have been suppressed by the athletes. We have a Gynecologist making a statement that the boxers both have XY chromosomes and pubertal advantage.

We have an endocrinologist stating that ‘despite‘ karyotype and testosterone levels, Khelif is a ‘woman’. Female is not used here.

We also have an Algerian doctor who has been monitoring testosterone suppression.

And female athletes don’t have any requirements to suppress testosterone. Only male athletes do this.

I suspect that too anne.

One wonders what language the harassment he received was in, given he can't read English

I've said it before, but as soon as this became a story I saw a ton of posts on Facebook (even from people I didn't follow) insisting that these were XY athletes who were women. Now, it's XY DSDs. Previously, it was trans women, and "female athletes with high testosterone." They're testing the boundaries.

AND the fact that NEITHER boxer disputed the disqualification or went to an appeal.
Why?

Well, don’t forget the appeal was active at first, I would predict until after the visit to the Paris endocrinologist.

They took Khelif to the endocrinologist to confirm the IBA results it seems. Which was wise if they hadn’t checked this before.

Or if indeed he received any.

One wonders why Khelif might be complaining about Elon Musk and JKR and not the IBA who started it all.

Anything to keep his name in the news and push his victim credentials.

I bet this "harassment" doesn't include anything like the death and rape threats JKR receives, given she's a woman (who stands up for women, what's more) and he isn't.

Meaning, he looked at her passport. Regardless of the medical evidence.

... by a posse wearing size 13 stilettos

Gosh,what a pickle he's got himself into.

'renowned'.

Renowned for what? Having a qualification in a certain area and being willing to take payment to go on record and declare someone is a woman.

When the criteria for 'being a woman' in this situation is laid out by IOC as having an F in your passport. Not being female.

This is a fairly typical example of propaganda to try and add legitimacy to something that's problematic by giving it some sort of professional backing.

We know that there are huge problems within the field of endocrinology with a large number willing to take money to play with hormones despite a lack of robust evidence to say it's a good idea. There are plenty of endocrinologists willing to say that someone who was born a man is a woman.

In this case we have someone on record saying despite their chromosomes and testosterone levels they are a woman, not not female. Language matters here. And they've been paid to do this.

In terms of them being a) a reliable impartial witness b) saying something of scientific value we have neither.

The first thing you learnt when studying history or media is to consider the bias of the source before what they say. Then you examine what they say and what their intentions is. Then you look for other sources of information to see if they match or say something different. Then you assess what is said in terms of its value and reliability. What you don't do is go "oh well they are an important person, so I will take what they say at face value and not apply any critical analysis to it". Because that's dumb.

We have a number of sources, including ones with bias towards to individual, who all say this is an XY individual with raised testosterone levels outside the female range.

And the problem with that in sporting terms is that anyone with raised testosterone levels outside the female range, who has XY chromosomes is likely to have gone through male puberty and have both an unfair advantage and pose a physical safety risk to females in a high risk contact sport like boxing.

Which is the entire argument about why we don't want males in female sport and why female sport was created in the first place.

Just because you declare someone a woman based on your paperwork definition doesn't mean that they are female or a woman based on actually being a women.

I do wonder about people who just blindly follow 'expert says' without actually thinking about what the expert says or why the expert is saying it and whether they really are a reliable expert or just someone on the payroll.

Corruption is a huge social issue. We have surprisingly little discussion of it compared to the scale of the problem.

'renowned expert' does not pass the GCSE level of scrutiny never mind the world class level of scrutiny needed for this debate.

I would like to reach A Level scrutiny on MN at some point but unfortunately I fear that we don't have that quality candidate.

Ouch, Red! On A-level results day and all!

It might have been the universal language of Hurtywordish.

🤣🤣🤣

Does one not have a multiligual expert in hurty words in one's entourage?

Bit weird that someone would post on the Feminism board to tell women off for objecting to live televised male violence but I suppose it takes all sorts, eh?

Handmaidens (assuming this poster is a woman). All this eagerness to defend Poor Imane is only shown to men, who the defenders know full well is a man.