Thread 4: TWO “Female Boxers” Set To Compete At Paris 2024 Were Previously Disqualified From Women’s World Championship For Having “XY Chromosomes”

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Thread 1

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Sally Hines is a silly troll.

It's a shame that Bach isn't getting the sach.

She must be hanging around with Nicola Sturgeon.

I’m enraged. Fuck the IOC and all who enable this shit.

Very droll

I don't know if the article from the Guardian (possibly the Observer actually) has been posted. It's more about the IBA, it seems neutral but inconclusive and, to me, seems to be lacking. I wonder if it's been censored or just poorly conceived?

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/aug/11/gender-wars-and-gazprom-vol-au-vents-how-boxing-ended-up-in-a-mess

Written by Daniel Boffey, not a name I'm familiar with.

Both boxers have another night to shine as both are flag bearers tonight.

Sally Hines calling anyone calling for sex screening a racist. I can't even work out the logic. How can screening for sex be racist?

Ironically it may be because the people making this argument are themselves racist. They think non white women look like men, so think we are asking for testing because the athletes are not white, not because unlike them we /can/ tell an Asian woman from an Asian man (or whichever origin it might be). not to mention the small matter of having previously accepted disqualification on sex testing.

See also people who think butch lesbians look like men.

I didn't realise Gazprom was such a pariah. Do they still sponsor the Champions League Euro football? They certainly did up until recently. A bit more useful detail about the IBA in that Guardian piece.

Well I shall be very interested to see which uniform KH will be wearing….

Are there any other female Algerian boxers at the Olympics?

Yes there are two I think. One has the same last name, Khelif.

Piece by Dan Roan

Imane Khelif and Lin Yu-ting: Boxing eligibility row key questions - BBC Sport

'There are many women with higher testosterone levels than men....'

From the BBC piece linked above, said by an IOC spokesman.

Load of cobblers.

Maybe he's thinking about the East German female athletes of the 1970s?

So there's no one test that's a magic bullet? Well then, let's have a cheek swab test followed by another one if there seems to be an issue of DSDs and then go from there. So not "a test."

At least the BBC article says that Semenya and the other two medaling track and field athletes were male.

That BBC article was overall pretty good, I thought. Yes the IOC show themselves up.

I didn't know this - paragraph below from that article.

Several top sprinters have also been affected by the sport’s restrictions on DSD athletes, which now cover all track and field events in the female category. Namibia's Christine Mboma, who 200m silver in Tokyo, and compatriot Beatrice Masilingi have both been affected by the rule change. They along with 11 others had to miss the World Championships in Budapest last year under the new rules requiring DSD athletes competing in previously unrestricted events to suppress their testosterone levels for at least six months before returning to competition.

The numbers - Mboma, Masilingi plus ELEVEN others had to miss the World Championships, and that's just in the events that weren't already restricted.

Make a loophole, people are going to jump through it.

At least the BBC article says that Semenya and the other two medaling track and field athletes were male.

Not quite, in so many words. It's not a good piece at all, though. One thing, and it's repeated in nearly every report I've seen, is that whilst piling on the usual (deserved) criticism of the IBA, it doesn't make it clear that the tests in question which caused the banning, were done by independent labs, and not by the IBA. Nor question why both fighters did not challenge the ruling at the CAS. Nor explain why sex testing would be any more 'intrusive' than drug tests that athletes routinely submit to. Nor consider the bigger picture for women's sport if the IOC's boneheaded "as long as there's an F on the passport!" principle becomes the norm?

Eleven others?

Wow.

From the link in the article above:
Coe said this will impact 13 DSD athletes, seven (55%) of whom compete in running events above a mile, with six (45%) in sprinting events below 400m.

Such a rare thing, these DSDs.

Well, yes, it's nonsense.

Reposting this from thread 2 on this topic.

I'd offer this study of Female Elite Warfighters (FEW) as a comparable, comparative group. You can see the comparative testosterone levels etc. there and read the discussion of comparison to levels of lean body mass, body fat levels etc.

One stereotype of FEW has been that they represent virilized female outliers, but this was clearly not the case. Serum androgen values were within normal ranges (0.4–2.0 nmol·L−1), below typical androgenization syndromes, such as polycystic ovary syndrome and congenital adrenal hyperplasia, and well below the 5 nmol·L−1 serum testosterone limit for female Olympic athletes (31,32). The androgens, SHBG, and serum lipids were comparable to values reported for female athletes (20,33,34). None of these women qualified for metabolic syndrome by the measured parameters measured in this study (serum lipids, SHBG, BMI, waist circumference, and serum androgens) (35).

McClung HL, Spiering BA, Bartlett PM, Walker LA, Lavoie EM, Sanford DP, Friedl KE. Physical and Physiological Characterization of Female Elite Warfighters. Med Sci Sports Exerc. 2022 Sep 1;54(9):1527-1533. doi: 10.1249/MSS.0000000000002942. Epub 2022 May 27. PMID: 35621397; PMCID: PMC9390221.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9390221/

One in 20,000 so they say. It's uncanny, isn't it?

Just watched Matthew Pinsent on BBC coverage.
He gets it.

I fist pumped when he was speaking! My partner said "Well he won't be back!"