Anti GC online abuse

[NotNowFGS]

I rose to it today. Couldn't help myself. Challenged a couple of folk on Twitter who were responding positively to my batshit TRA MPs statement on Twitter about the Olympic boxing business. I'm always polite. I ask questions and challenge gently here and there, but good god they always get abusive. I never learn.

“Your name vill also go on ze list! Vot is it?”

“Don’t tell him, Pike!”

[I love the fact that after Philip Madoc writes down Pike’s name there’s a very brief reaction shot of Ian Lavender looking panicked, but you can also see that he’s desperately trying not to laugh. He said he warned David Croft beforehand not to put the camera on him at that point because he wouldn’t be able to hold it together, and he had to bite the inside of his cheek to control himself. You can just see his mouth twist before the camera switches back to Madoc and Arthur Lowe.]

The point is that being trans or not has absolutely no relevance whatsoever to sport. We play sport with our sexed bodies, not our identities.

If a person with a DSD has spent a certain amount of their life being raised as and actually believing that they are female, only to learn later on that they are male, they have my sympathy. That must be very distressing.

If a trans person has known all their life that they were born male but feel very strongly that they should have been female and identify as female, they also have my sympathy. I can't imagine any of that is easy.

But neither of them should be competing in women's sports, for exactly the same reason. They are male and have an unfair advantage over female athletes.

It doesn't matter whether they are trans or have a DSD. We can say "no" kindly. But we must say "no" if we care about women's sport.

The two boxers are males who were raised as females. They deserve more sympathy than the person who doesnt have a dsd and just feels like they'd like to be a woman today but there are still two men who want to be women (at least until their boxing career ends, who knows after that) but are not.

Unlike TRAs I am not obsessed by what someone looks like or what they have in their pants - and those who post in that way are more likely to be TRA pretenders than genuine. Men dont belong in women's sports even if they raised as women.

I think someone who has XY chromosomes and elevated testosterone and looks male is a fairly convincing case of someone who shouldn't be competing in women's sports. And the evidence is these two boxers may qualify as this. There's some evidence at least one of them may even adopt a masculine social role in everyday life, which even trans activists would say makes them a man.

If they've only recently discovered they're really male then it's sad for them personally if they can't compete. But this sort of thing happens all the time: sportspeople break bones or discover a heart condition, and their careers are over. Excluding someone from female sport because of previously undiscovered medical facts is in much the same category.

Indeed , this is a prime example of what OP was talking about. Unsupported assertions , peppered with exclamation marks , CAPITALS , pointless repetition and folksy Americanisms about ' y'all TERFS'. Give my head peace.

An update from earlier.

Boston Globe have apologised for describing Imane Khelif as transgender in print, and for neglecting to note she was born female.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/other/the-boston-globe-apologized-for-the-significant-error-of-calling-imane-khelif-transgender/ar-AA1ogAnj

Still waiting for an apology from Ms Rowling...

Oh come on. No one is suggesting that this boxer is transgender. And indeed, no one is disputing that this boxer has a Female marker on their birth certificate. They are alleged to have XY chromosomes and "very high" testosterone, according to the IBA tests. Presenting as female at birth and having XY chromosomes will be down to having a DSD, which could be CAIS but given the physical presentation of this boxer is more likely to be 5-ARD as per Caster Semenya. Someone with XY chromosomes and the 5-ARD DSD will have gone through male puberty and have male levels of testosterone. Much like any other XY male. So, unfortunately, that should make them ineligible for the female category in sports.

Ms Rowling is outright calling Imane a "male" and using male pronouns for her, and saying she is "enjoying the distress of a woman who was punched". I'm not a lawyer but some might potentially see all that as defamatory.

And yes, just to add it's the Olympic boxing. Competitors will punch each other (that's the whole point), punches will come hard (it's Olympic standard, best of the best), and I'm sure literally every competitor there has dreams to win a medal and everyone who doesn't earn one is devastated.

If it makes anyone feel any better the opponent who cried was given $50,000 in consolation and also has a crowdfunder up.

just an awful post there apple

do you never reread and feel ashamed?

Olympic boxing where the women should be able to expect to box with the best women boxers. Unfortunately for them, that is not the case and they are having to fight men.

If it was the high jump and a couple of the competitors were allowed to use a pole vault pole, would that be fair? Going to the Olympics and not getting a medal must be gutting, but to lose to someone who had an unfair advantage which any reasonable person would think to be against the rules is many more times so.

"Ms Rowling is outright calling Imane a "male" and using male pronouns for her, and saying she is "enjoying the distress of a woman who was punched". I'm not a lawyer but some might potentially see all that as defamatory."

That's got nothing to do with the Boston Globe article that you posted, which was about this boxer being called transgender.

Given that this boxer did not follow up the IBA's decision in court, then I would imagine that this boxer will not be taking anyone else to court.

None of what is in the quote you mention is defamatory. This boxer is male, the rest is opinion and use of sex-based pronouns.

do you never reread and feel ashamed?

I think we all know the answer to that question!

Fair point snowy

Because he is male, do keep up.
"Wire Sports has seen the test results and a June 5, 2023 IBA letter to the IOC that says tests of Khelif, one in New Delhi, a prior test in Istanbul at the 2022 world championships, “concluded the boxer’s DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.”
For both Khelif and Lin, the New Delhi test – from, as IBA disclosed Monday, the independent Dr Lal PathLabs – consists of three pages. In part:
The first page provides, along with basic identifying information for each athlete and date and time of sample collection, result summary – “abnormal” – and interpretation – “chromosome analysis reveals Male karyotype.”
The second page offers photographic representation of the 22 paired autosomes and then, for each athlete, further depicts an X and a Y chromosome. Page three makes plain that the lab is a “national reference lab” and, as well, accredited by CAP, the Northfield, Illinois-based College of American Pathologists, and certified by the ISO, the Swiss-based International Organization for Standardization."
You should read the article its thorough explanatory and contains photos of the Test results.
www.3wiresports.com/articles/2024/8/5/fa9lt6ypbwx5su3z20xxnfzgtao0gy

I never thought I would say this, but....

Khelif was not born female. He was assigned female at birth.

Incontrovertibly - see my post above yours with link
'"Wire Sports has seen the test results and a June 5, 2023 IBA letter to the IOC that says tests of Khelif, one in New Delhi, a prior test in Istanbul at the 2022 world championships, “concluded the boxer’s DNA was that of a male consisting of XY chromosomes.”'

Ironic, isn't it - one time it's actually correct to use that phrase, and they won't!

Boston Globe have apologised for describing Imane Khelif as transgender in print

That's their own idiocy. No one here thinks Khelif is "transgender". Nor does JKR.

@Immemorialelms

"Sex is a complicated thing involving chromosomes hormones epigenetics and physical organs - it is genuinely sometimes possible to question the binary, who knew?"

This is inaccurate and misleading. Humans beings are differentiated by sex for reproductive functions. People with DSDs are male or female based on whether they have XX or XY chromosomes. However, they are knocked from the standard developmental pathway because of genetic defects. In all cases, they are infertile as a result of these defects. This includes Swyers (infertile men) XX sry (infertile women) and the male conditions involving androgen insensitivity.

I think you also asserted that the existence of these conditions proves that sex exists on a spectrum. This is demonstrably not true, because sex is about reproduction of the species, and as I've already pointed out, people with DSDs are ALWAYS infertile.

Only the sexy kind of ashamed!

not envy

If JK Rowling can speak her piece so can everyone else. She isn't the only one with an opinion.

JeremiahBullfrog · 04/08/2024 08:48

If they've only recently discovered they're really male then it's sad for them personally if they can't compete. But this sort of thing happens all the time: sportspeople break bones or discover a heart condition, and their careers are over.

How very well said.

Christinapple · Yesterday 17:22

Ms Rowling is outright calling Imane a "male" and using male pronouns for her, and saying she is "enjoying the distress of a woman who was punched". I'm not a lawyer but some might potentially see all that as defamatory.

Only if it's untrue. Have you seen the footage of they whooping and chest beating?

What about the distress of the women them has beaten up? Don't the count for anything at all, in your reality? Angela Carini only took two punches and her face was completely messed up, on both sides. I found that pretty shocking, she looked like she'd been in a hard ten rounder.

TWO punches, only two. I can't recall seeing anything like that before.

From what I am reading, sex is defined by which reproductive system someone has, and whether it could potentially produce male gametes or female gametes.

So people with DSDs are male or female based on whether they have male or female reproductive organs, regardless of whether they are fully functional or not. Their sex isn’t based on their chromosomes.

Someone with Swyer syndrome is female, because they have internal female reproductive organs, with non-functional ovaries. So they’re women, even though they have XY chromosomes.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/swyer-syndrome/

I agree that the existence of DSD conditions don’t mean that sex is a spectrum. None of them are an extra sex.