Women's rights general conversations - Thread 9

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 8.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions in the supermarket, grr"- that sort of thing).

I agree, 'knowing what a woman is' is far too low a bar for common ground. You have to ask what they will do with that knowledge.

But I'm sufficiently misanthropic to be able to heartily dislike both parties, rather than thinking I have to be friends with one of them. I see this sort of thing as the equivalent of the Jirassic park T. Rex chomping the velociraptor. I see the danger of the chomper but can still enjoy the chompee getting chomped.

I don't think that's misanthropy, just political realism.

I'm inclined to think DT would have taken whatever stance he viewed as expedient.

DH was angrily talking about how the USAian right-wingers want to control women's bodies, which of course he is correct about. But then I pointed out that the Good Guys also want to control women's bodies, just they use more complimacated complexific situational obfuscatory word-salads to disguise it.

And I fucking hate being a "both sides-er" on this because obviously the Trumpian assault on female reproductive rights is worse.

It just annoys me that Naice People like DH work really hard to turn a blind eye to the hypocritical nastiness of "our side" - whatever that means these days.

Fair point. Although I am also a misanthrope. 😁

The only thing Trump believes in is Trump. All the rest is a means to an end.

The only thing Trump believes in is Trump.

I agree and I suspect most politicians are the same, but they hide it. Two cheeks of the same arse.

NoBinturongsHereMate · Today 09:36

But I'm sufficiently misanthropic to be able to heartily dislike both parties, rather than thinking I have to be friends with one of them.

As someone said, it was a choice between a shit sandwich and a turd burger. I have a visceral dislike for Trump and little respect for Harris, but I suspect she would have been far better. I really fear for Ukraine now.

In furious agreement with everyone on the thread this morning.

I really fear for Ukraine now.

That's where my despondency has settled this morning. Even if I could try to compartmentalise / lock-away-in-a-box the impact on the US itself (and say "well, they voted for it") and try to accept that individual states setting their own policies is sort of democracy even when those policies are hideous, the wider world is in greater peril now, very much including Europe.

Yes, I fear Ukraine is lost. And some of the other border countries could then be in trouble.

Climate wise there's a tiny glimmer of hope in Musk's influence. He's no saner than Trump, but does like his electric cars and solar stuff. (Yes, I know looking for hope there means things are really bad.)

Abortion I really don't think Trump cares about. The danger there is from the rest of the party and the people who appoints, rather than direct. But as several states have now made it a States Rights issue, that could blunt the Republicans a little.

Musk is one of the biggest shits on the planet. Along with Trump. In a saner world, these men would not be lauded, but locked up. As for Ukraine, I've been saying forever, it's fucked. Putin has won, the West can't wait to dump Zelenskyy; Trump might do it quicker, but the Dems will be the same. And Zelenskyy will go to his grave admiring Boris Johnson. Funny that, eh?

You've reminded me of this...

Surprisingly (or maybe not) red states where abortion has made it onto the ballot have so far retained abortion rights, and blue states have enshrined them anyway, so there is a glimmer of hope. I except Florida from this where pro-choicers tried to get the rights as part of the state constitution, and didn't quite make the required 60% mark.

Trump on "trans children."

https://x.com/TPointUK/status/1854531868202271047

I didn't have the sound on, I can't stand his voice, but he looked angry and serious...and orange.

There are other threads for discussing the American election. Someone on one pointed out that Trump didnt really increase his vote, Democrats stayed home. Probably what I would have done if I lived in America.

I posted that specifically due it being part of the trans/ women's right debate rather than just a general US election reference. The Dems undoubtedly lost votes over that issue - including people staying at home as they couldn't quite bring themselves to vote for the orange fella.

I voted Democrat despite strongly disagreeing with their policies over transgender because everything else about the orange guy and his party was so repellent and in my opinion dangerous. But I am actually glad he is taking the stance he is on that issue, probably the only one on which I find a level of agreement with him. I think adults can do what they like to themselves, though I think the medical profession should be ethically obliged to insist on psychotherapeutic help for the patient before performing procedures in which adults mutilate their bodies. But even a man who has had such procedures is still a man and doesn't belong in female spaces.

as they say, my enemy’s enemy is not my friend.

When life gives you lemons or, in this case oranges, make an appropriate fruity beverage.

I'm torn between both those sentiments.

For me personally though, Trump is such a potential disaster for, well, everything, that I can't even see the slight glint of silver lining. Plus, everything he does seems to come from a place of anger and hate and wilful destructiveness.

(If I had had a vote, I would have held my nose and voted Democrat.)

One Donald inspired orange beverage!

I'd have voted Democrat as well. The two party system leaves most of us at a disadvantage because generally neither comes close to reaching all of your expectations.

Just came across this article

https://archive.ph/LuspP

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/chest-binder-fundraiser-glasgow-school-jnk85s57k

I'm a bit all over the place with how I feel about it. I'm horrified but unsurprised that the LGBTQI club came up with the idea. They've obviously still being kind, steeped in gender woo and I fear who's been talking to them about it. Has LGBT Youth been in? I'm furious at the teacher who sent out the email, instead of flagging it, they need investigating. Pleased that the majority of staff recognised the problem and had it, at least partially, dealt with. As for the Council, just shrugging their fucking shoulders 😠

That's pretty much how I felt, and it's what I did.

We heard about what were the issues that prompted say swing voters to vote Trump (woke stuff being #1 for them IIRC). Has anyone analysed the reasons that, as I understand it, a fair number of those who usually democrats didn't vote at all?