Jane Clare Jones blog on Tommy Robinson

[CassieMaddox]

Just a really great read
https://janeclarejones.com/2024/07/28/tommy-robinson-far-right-populism-and-gender-criticism/

These are my favourite bits:

The greatest danger to women and girls has always been, and remains, the men inside their own houses. This is the nature, and the devastation, of endemic male sexual violence. It usually happens in the place, and with the people, who are supposed to be most safe. It would perhaps be comforting to imagine that we could easily identify the men who are dangerous – the Muslims, the brown ones, the ones in dresses – and then we could keep ourselves safe by keeping them out. But the argument materialist feminists made throughout the early years of the gender wars applies equally here: men are a statistical danger to women as a class and there is prima facie no way of working out which ones are dangerous and which ones are not.

The argument is no longer ‘guilt by association’ or ‘purity politics,’ it is now a) What even is the far right anyway?, b) The far right doesn’t mean anything because I was called far right for knowing men aren’t women, c) You people think anyone who disagrees with you is far right, and d) He is not far right anyway. That is, it has moved from claiming that association with the far right is either not happening or if it is happening has no impact on the substance of GC discourse, to people openly associating with the far right and recycling far right talking points while denying that the far right is the far right.

But what feminist women have tried, largely unsuccessfully, to get across, is that these kinds of men are not on ‘your side,’ if ‘your side’ is genuinely defending women’s rights. These men are on their side, and their side wants a largely white patriarchal nation, in which ‘their’ women know their place and are ‘protected’ only insofar as ‘protection’ means keeping them guarded from ‘other’ men.

The pictures at the end of the article are very illuminating too.

Brava JCJ 👏

It's my thread, that's what it was about. I'm annoyed it's been derailed into anti Muslim tosh. The way of the world I guess.

Suggesting that men from other cultures might be more of a risk to women than British-born men, and that this is perhaps something that should be considered when framing immigration and integration policies is not to suggest that they are 'innately worse'.

'Innate' means 'inborn, natural'. That was what I was driving at in my post.

Please, Cassie, acquaint yourself with what words actually mean.

As for the immigration debate having nothing to do with feminism, let's go back to Tommy Robinson. People support him when they feel overwhelmed by what looks to them like a chaotic system with high immigration that seems to have no benefits to them at all: their wages are stagnating, they or their kids can't afford the rent or to buy a house, and so on. Then there is an honour killing, or a bomb goes off somewhere in the UK. All their worries about immigration coalesce into anxiety over 'Muslims' (not Islamism, which is the actual concern). Tommy Robinson scores a win and his anti-feminist agenda gets a nice boost.

You can't just section things off. It's a huge, complex, endlessly interacting system.

Not what I said at all.

If you are suggesting that men from "other cultures" are a risk and need to be kept out of the UK then yes, you are suggesting they are innately worse than British born men. I don't believe that. I believe human nature is human nature.

Literally nobody on this thread had argued that men from other cultures are innately worse than British born men. Nobody has come anywhere close to arguing that. This is a complete misrepresentation of what people are arguing and you damn well know it.

You are very fond of dishing out doughnuts or biscuits or whatever it is. Here’s one for you. 🍩

Dismissing first and second gen immigrant women’s lived experiences as ‘Tosh’ isn’t Feminist.

Not what I said at all.

Quoting you, Cassie

KielderWater
Do you believe in multiculturalism?

"Let's start with what you mean by "multiculturalism" as I highly doubt i even buy into the basic concept."

Quite. I similarly wish people would stop "sectioning off" the current situation as the fault of "the left".

I want to talk about feminism in the UK and the influence of the far right. That's what JCJs article and the thread is about. I'm not interested in discussing anti-muslim prejudice. It's irrelevant, unless you think TR has a point in that regard.

Stop policing what people talk about. You've posted a blog centred on TR and Muslims and immigration, and then complain because posters are presenting a nuanced view.

The far right has no influence on feminism in UK.

Everything I've raised has been in this country and is or should be relevant to any real feminist.

The first part of that sentence is operative to my point.

You have misunderstood me.

JCJs blog says precisely nothing about Muslims, apart from one line where she talks about white supremacists seeing "other" men as a threat.

Maybe try reading it rather than assuming

You really seem to have a problem with understanding what I'm saying. I'm not being defensive. I'm trying to explain something to you. If you perceive that as defensiveness, then I think that's probably down to your difficulty in understanding rather than my difficulty in explaining.

So let's take this slowly. White people born in country X are more racist than white people born in country Y. This is not because they are intrinsically more racist, but because they have been brought up in a society where racist attitudes are commonplace and accepted.

Similarly, men born in country X are more hostile towards women than men born in country Y, not because they are intrinsically more misogynistic, but because they have been brought up in a society where hostility towards women is considered normal and acceptable.

I want to talk about feminism in the UK and the influence of the far right.

Feminists were abandoned by the faux left, when we refused to support gender ideology.
I don't believe the far right is influencing feminist thought. You seem determined to make a link, you have frequently claimed feminist are voting for Reform.

I can't be bothered to AS my own comments, but I have said before the far right will glom on to any cause they believe will make it look like they have more support than they actually do.

The first part of that sentence is operative to my point.

What do you understand the term "multiculturalism" to mean? Not what you have decided that the poster means. What you mean.

I can't be bothered to AS my own comments, but I have said before the far right will glom on to any cause they believe will make it look like they have more support than they actually do.

Yes, me too. And many other posters here. Women here are being misrepresented.

Feminists were abandoned by the faux left, when we refused to support gender ideology.

Absolutely, it's only Reform and Tommy Robinson who are currently standing up for women's rights & feminists.

Why are people so determined to misrepresent what women are saying? It's a mystery.

Threads do not belong to specific posters.

How can you talk about TR and the extreme right without talking about what TR has been protesting about/railing against?

JCJs blog says precisely nothing about Muslims, apart from one line where she talks about white supremacists seeing "other" men as a threat.

Maybe try reading it rather than assuming

Having just skimmed it, for my sins, the idea that she only mentions Muslims once is laughable.

I can count up the number of different times she uses the word "Muslim" if you like?

How can you talk about TR and the extreme right without talking about what TR has been protesting about/railing against?

Quite.

In terms of innate culture - this is Iran pre-revolution. The difference to today? Islamism.

"Quite', she says.
Having just tried to section things off.

JCJ headlines on grooming gangs with the stunning revelation that right wing rape too as well. She also has a go at Douglas Murray as being anti Muslim.
I was going to copy and paste her notes but they're just as tedious as the main text.

I'm also sick and tired of the continual references to US politics in JCJs blog. If you're only interested in the UK stick to the UK.

In terms of innate culture - this is Iran pre-revolution. The difference to today? Islamism.

You could substitute a picture of Kabul in the 70s. It's Handmaid's Tale level chilling.

Nine, according to my search function.