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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Will US Democrats support a WOC as their candidate or will they by pass Kamala Harris?

206 replies

IwantToRetire · 21/07/2024 22:24

Biden Drops Out of Presidential Race and Endorses Harris: Live Updates

After intense pressure from within his own party, President Biden said he was ending his campaign and backing Vice President Kamala Harris to run in his place. Ms. Harris said she would seek the nomination, adding: “Together, we will fight. And together, we will win.”

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/21/us/biden-drops-out-election

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Sloejelly · 25/07/2024 21:31

The problem for Trump is his support may be deep but not wide.

NotBadConsidering · 25/07/2024 21:45

Sloejelly · 25/07/2024 21:31

The problem for Trump is his support may be deep but not wide.

And the problem for Harris, is it only comes down to about 100,000 people across a few swing states to actually decide the election. There were only 10,000 votes in Michigan that cost Hillary Clinton the state and the election.

knitnerd90 · 25/07/2024 23:20

It's also not always deep. The hard core of Trump voters are very committed, and there are the ones who would vote for a ham sandwich if it were running as a Republican, but he has more voters who are considered less reliable. Turnout is massively important. I have a friend who worked with Stacey Abrams and Fair Fight in Georgia in 2020, and did they ever get those voters to the polls. They will be fired up this year with Harris on the ticket; they were worried they wouldn't get enough enthusiasm for a Biden rerun.

twodowntwotogo · 25/07/2024 23:25

knitnerd90 · 25/07/2024 23:20

It's also not always deep. The hard core of Trump voters are very committed, and there are the ones who would vote for a ham sandwich if it were running as a Republican, but he has more voters who are considered less reliable. Turnout is massively important. I have a friend who worked with Stacey Abrams and Fair Fight in Georgia in 2020, and did they ever get those voters to the polls. They will be fired up this year with Harris on the ticket; they were worried they wouldn't get enough enthusiasm for a Biden rerun.

Getting the vote out will be so so important - I hope the excitement about Harris translates into a big push to get voters to the polls. Stacey Abrams was amazing last time

TempestTost · 26/07/2024 23:52

I'm still pretty unsure about Harris. Is she likely to appeal to the people she needs to win over?

I do think even many Dem voters are increasingly unhappy with the whole let criminals do crime thing, so that particular problem may not hurt her chances so much.

EsmaCannonball · 27/07/2024 08:57

Apparently Obama was in the process of setting up Mark Kelly as the candidate. Biden, already pissed off with Obama for endorsing Clinton in 2016, was super pissed off at Obama manoeuvring for him to step down, and so pulled the rug on him by endorsing Harris in his resignation speech. He wanted to thwart Obama and make him regret plotting to oust him, even if it risk Trump in the White House. All the endorsements and money started to flowing to Harris and it was too late to set up Kelly as an alternative.

I don't think Harris was the best strategy but, now she is almost certainly the candidate, I hope she wins. She seems to have galvanised the base and abortion is a toxic issue for the Republicans. I wonder, though, how she is going down outside the media and social media bubble?

Abhannmor · 27/07/2024 09:02

Sloejelly · 25/07/2024 21:31

The problem for Trump is his support may be deep but not wide.

He has a ceiling and it is not especially high. In two elections he lost the popular vote by a combined total of 10 million. According to Alan Lichtman in 'Keys to the White House' it takes a lot for the incumbent president- or presumably their vp and anointed successor- to lose. A recession, a huge scandal , a military disaster and serious social unrest , strikes , riots etc. Then there is charisma , neither candidate has it. An interesting take. If he is right then polls are pointless and most campaigning is a waste of money?

knitnerd90 · 27/07/2024 09:44

I don't see how Obama thought he could push Kelly ahead of Harris without angering huge sections of the party base. First would be women, especially Black women, who would be incredibly angry about being pushed aside for a white man. Democrats can't win without women and their strategy is to push reproductive rights. Women do quire a lot of the low level work. Without those women who do the door to door canvassing and the get out the vote work of driving people to the polls, the Democrats would flounder.

second, one of Mark Kelly's downsides is that he didn't support the PRO (Protecting the Right to Organize) Act, which would anger the unions and the progressive wing of the party in general. They're not as powerful as they were but they still have power within the Democratic Party, and Biden was the most pro-labor administration in decades.

that, of course, assumes the story is true. DC is the world's biggest rumour mill.

Sloejelly · 27/07/2024 10:20

abortion is a toxic issue for the Republicans

Abortion is a toxic issue for both parties. A lot of Americans believe in the sanctity of life from conception and consider the ending of life in utero to be murder. There are plenty on both sides who vote purely on this issue.

knitnerd90 · 27/07/2024 11:11

It is, but the pattern has been clear: a lot of Americans don't like abortion, but also don't like banning it. Every election that's turned into a referendum on abortion (directly or indirectly) has been a win for abortion rights. The hardline "no abortion ever" people underestimated this soft element of the vote. Banning abortion was a lot more popular when no one had to be accountable for the consequences.

RitaIncognita · 27/07/2024 13:21

Biden, already pissed off with Obama for endorsing Clinton in 2016

Obama endorsed Clinton many months after Biden announced that he would not run for president in the 2016 election.

SammyScrounge · 27/07/2024 13:46

IwantToRetire · 21/07/2024 22:24

Biden Drops Out of Presidential Race and Endorses Harris: Live Updates

After intense pressure from within his own party, President Biden said he was ending his campaign and backing Vice President Kamala Harris to run in his place. Ms. Harris said she would seek the nomination, adding: “Together, we will fight. And together, we will win.”

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/07/21/us/biden-drops-out-election

I think Kamala us a disaster. I wish they could have chosen someone like Michelle Obama. She is respected,intelligent and seems to me to be a trustworthy person. Kamala is none of these things.
If Kamala is elected she will put the public off electing another woman for centuries.

IwantToRetire · 27/07/2024 18:29

You are at risk. We are all at risk. Because this is what I know: bad things are coming. We are in a code red emergency.

Because misogyny isn’t bad people saying bad things that may hurt your feelings. (Though it might.) And misogyny isn’t about silencing women. (Though it does.)

Misogyny is now one of the deadliest weapons on Earth. Misogyny is a dirty bomb in the heart of our information system. Misogyny is electoral interference. Misogyny is a national security threat so lethal we can’t even see it.

Because misogyny is invisible. It’s never about all women, it’s always just about one particular, disagreeable woman who just happens to not be very likeable. Or competent. Who is loud or “shrill” or annoying or who got the job because she slept with a man. Or because she was a diversity hire. A woman who can’t even run her own house let alone a country. A woman who is “nasty”. A woman who isn’t and cannot be the strong leader a nation needs.

It took years for us to learn some of the basic facts of what happened in 2016 and it’s still just a partial view. But we now know: Russia attacked Clinton in exactly the same way that Trumpworld attacked Clinton, in exactly the same way that they are attacking Kamala.

We now know how the Kremlin actually paid in roubles for Facebook to pump those messages out across US social media. We now know that Cambridge Analytica, on behalf of the Trump campaign, created an anonymous Crooked Hillary campaign that it fed into the “bloodstream of the internet”.

But neither invented misogyny. They just used it. These were narratives the bros of the broverse were already spreading, which the invisible hand of the social media algorithms were pumping into people’s feeds. The same zombie narratives that have risen again for Kamala and are already being stoked not just by YouTube edgelords and JD Vance fanboys but Russia and China too.

Soon, we won’t even notice. It’ll just be part of the air that we breathe. A choking toxic misogynistic stew that will silently pour over the culture war trenches like mustard gas. Darkness is coming. This is the world social media created. And we’re much further out than we thought.

Please dont assume this is the whole article. These are just a few paragraphs I picked out. Full article at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/27/misogyny-emergency-huge-outpouring-kamala-harris-us-electionction

(Bit surprised this is on the Guardian web site, but on checking I think this is an article for tomorrow's Observer.)

Sorry - wanted to add this!

... there are things that only veterans of the childless cat lady wars can know. They used to call us witches because we knew shit. We still do. That’s what makes us so powerful. And dangerous. That’s what JD Vance understands: our cat lady energy. We’ve lived through culture wars before they even had that name, before they invented memes and when they just burned us at the stake.

Added because even mainstream media is saying, she isn't necessarily everyone's first choice, but the more Trump and Vance are insulting about women, the more women are supporting KH.

So even if it is the only thing, if this is the start of men realising they cant denigrate women and not pay a price, that is a plus.

This is a misogyny emergency. A huge outpouring is coming in the runup to the US election

This time Kamala Harris will be the target for the social media platforms that promote prejudice

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/27/misogyny-emergency-huge-outpouring-kamala-harris-us-electionction

OP posts:
twodowntwotogo · 27/07/2024 18:37

SammyScrounge · 27/07/2024 13:46

I think Kamala us a disaster. I wish they could have chosen someone like Michelle Obama. She is respected,intelligent and seems to me to be a trustworthy person. Kamala is none of these things.
If Kamala is elected she will put the public off electing another woman for centuries.

Was there ever a possibility Michelle Obama would run?

Abhannmor · 27/07/2024 18:46

SammyScrounge · 27/07/2024 13:46

I think Kamala us a disaster. I wish they could have chosen someone like Michelle Obama. She is respected,intelligent and seems to me to be a trustworthy person. Kamala is none of these things.
If Kamala is elected she will put the public off electing another woman for centuries.

If i lived in the US I'd vote for Harris : and I Iived - existed anyway - through the locust years of Thatcher.

knitnerd90 · 27/07/2024 19:13

Michelle Obama would never run.

IwantToRetire · 28/07/2024 02:14

Recent YouGov Poll after Biden withdrew from Presidential Election:

Democrats overwhelmingly approve of Vice President Kamala Harris becoming Biden’s replacement as the Democratic Party’s presidential nominee: 85% approve and only 10% disapprove

When Democrats are asked to choose between Harris and three other prominent Democrats, 61% choose Harris while each of the other three — California Gov. Gavin Newsom, Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, and Georgia Sen. Raphael Warnock — gets 6% or less

Among other prominent Democrats polled about whom Harris might pick as her running mate, Mark Kelly, Josh Shapiro, and Warnock are viewed favorably by about as many Americans as view them unfavorably

Americans are evenly divided on whether Harris is qualified to be president: 43% say she is qualified and 43% say she is not

  • Democrats overwhelmingly say Harris is qualified, by 84% to 9%

55% of Americans hope the U.S. elects a woman to be president in their lifetime; only 24% say they don't

  • 49% of men and 59% of women hope for a woman to be elected as president in their lifetime
  • 62% of adults under 45 and 49% of older adults hope this happens
  • 25% of men and 23% of women do not hope a woman is elected to be president in their lifetime
  • Only 20% of Republicans and 21% of conservatives say they hope for a woman to be elected as president in their lifetime — perhaps because the most likely way this would happen in the short term is for Harris to defeat Donald Trump

More at https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50164-kamala-harris-jd-vance-joe-biden-donald-trump-2024-election-olympics-july-21-23-2024-economist-yougov-poll

Kamala Harris, J.D. Vance, and the Olympics: July 21 - 23, 2024 Economist/YouGov Poll | YouGov

This week’s Economist/YouGov poll covers Kamala Harris stepping in as the presumptive Democratic nominee, how she fares against Donald Trump, the Republican convention, the attempted assassination of Trump, the Israel-Hamas war, the Russia-Ukraine war,...

https://today.yougov.com/politics/articles/50164-kamala-harris-jd-vance-joe-biden-donald-trump-2024-election-olympics-july-21-23-2024-economist-yougov-poll

OP posts:
RitaIncognita · 28/07/2024 02:29

Senator Warnock is a no go because the Governor of Georgia is a Republican, who would appoint a Republican to fill his seat.

DeanElderberry · 28/07/2024 08:15

Is there any reason for it not to be Mark Kelly? From a State with a Democrat governor - chest full of military medals - good public service family background (cops not old money) - interesting former career - very supportive of his wife who survived a much more serious gun injury than Trump's (Jewish but not loudly pro-Israel wrt the Gaza war).

Seems to me he ticks a lot of boxes, and in a very old fashioned way will give Gabby Giffords back some of the political visibilty the shooter tried to take from her.

Plus he'll keep the Irish genealogy industry happy, and he looks quite cute with that bald head.

knitnerd90 · 28/07/2024 08:21

My #1 issue with him is that he didn't support the PRO act to protect unions. Also it would mean Arizona needing to find yet another senate candidate. But if he got picked, I'd be all right with it.

DeanElderberry · 28/07/2024 08:27

The unions seem happy with Harris, and it is important to appeal to a spread of interests - Kelly would hit lots of spots that she might not.

Abhannmor · 28/07/2024 08:29

Yes @DeanElderberry he ticks a few boxes. And could swing Arizona. But then you have 2 candidates from the West. And Arizona doesnt have as many electoral college votes as eg Pennsylvania or Georgia. Still I think whoever they pick will show Vance up as a chancer who once wrote a book about Hillbillies.

DeanElderberry · 28/07/2024 08:36

I think Vance is doing that all by himself.

PlanetJanette · 28/07/2024 08:40

SammyScrounge · 27/07/2024 13:46

I think Kamala us a disaster. I wish they could have chosen someone like Michelle Obama. She is respected,intelligent and seems to me to be a trustworthy person. Kamala is none of these things.
If Kamala is elected she will put the public off electing another woman for centuries.

I think Michelle Obama is great. But she has never held any office. She has done nothing in her career that suggests she has the skills to be President.

Harris, by contrast has experience as a state Attorney General and Senator, as well as VP. Claiming she is not intelligent is just classic misogynoir.

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