Hadley Freeman in the Sunday Times

[Lovelyview]

Asks 'Will the Trans activists ever accept they lost?' https://archive.ph/9UasY Cheered me up this morning. (Although I'm not quite so sure this thing is done and dusted)

I agree. My concern is that scoping this as winning and losing encourages a never ending battle. A cardinal rule of negotiating and even of engaging in conflict is to provide the opposition, however framed, with an acceptable way out.

This. It's just toxic.

“the reliably ill-informed Anneliese Dodds”
😆😆😆

Wholly agree.

Those 8 years have been spent with people trying to politely, kindly reason, sympathise, endless explain that they are not saying such things to be mean but because other people have needs too and that the dangerous bits don't disappear if you identify as them not being there..... it hasn't worked. At all.

The only thing that is going to work on this is unfortunately clear, firm boundaries.

And while some parents have actively enabled and found their own benefits and identities through their children's, plenty of parents have been threatened with social services involvement or worse, and have had zealous school staff gagging to enable their child in parental alienation as well as many less than healthy or stable adults online meeting their own needs through vigorously encouraging kids through transition. And those parents have been left with the awful option of going along with harming their child and by doing so at least have some hope of gently applying breaks or other thoughts to protect their child, and not losing them altogether. Some of them are MNetters, right here, still dealing with this daily.

This is a massive safeguarding failure on so many fronts. Massive. Historically so.

But these TRA's are fucking bonkers. Compromise, accommodation, reasonableness have no place dealing with nutters. We have to win, full stop.

Great article, thanks for the link.

God she's brilliant. One of her best yet.

Regarding the "cheerleading" parents. When you have a child who's struggling while your friends' kids are living their best lives, the sense of being pitied is hard to bear. I can see why you might try and make their "transitioning" into a positive thing in the eyes of other people and act like you're delighted. Indeed, you might be incredibly relieved to find what seems to be an answer to their struggles.

And I think in the climate of the past 15 years, unless you are a particularly resistant to trends, or a Mumsnetter, you probably would believe that any concerns you have are to do with your own prejudice.

None of this is an excuse for not thinking more deeply about it as the other side of the debate has become more widely discussed. But I can see why if your child seems happier for transitioning then you might be strongly in favour of others doing so. We haven't seen huge numbers of detransitioners yet and it may take many years before we do. I think for those who are TRA for personal reasons then it will take personal reasons to reconsider too.

There are already thousands of detransitioners, and their stories are out there; but when you live in a trans bubble - which is what ends up happening - you just don't come across these stories. You effectively join a closed groups which protects itself from outside influences, in which 'being trans' is front and centre of your whole life.

Nobody is really " living their best life". This amercanised concept springs directly from the world of social media in which people continually update images and snippets, all carefully curated, from their lives. Real life is far more complex, far more nuanced.

Great article, Hadley Freeman is a star.
There is also a corker about the JustStopOil sentence
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/21/yes-five-years-in-jail-is-too-harsh-but-the-just-stop-oil-five-shouldnt-have-done-it

And a sad letter about violence to women.
https://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/article/2024/jul/21/end-this-culture-of-male-aggression
Im sure there were laws against Drunken disorder when I was a kid.

Nobody is really " living their best life". This amercanised concept springs directly from the world of social media in which people continually update images and snippets, all carefully curated, from their lives. Real life is far more complex, far more nuanced.

Of course. Most people know this deep down. My point is that the sense of shame and guilt you feel as a parent when your child is struggling is really hard. I can understand why some parents may see transition as a solution and even appear proud about it as a defence against the pity of others.

I just tried to read this link and was blocked as it contains images of paedophilia??

That's odd. Is it the original post link or the ones from @omlettes ? They all still work for me. (And obviously there aren't any images of paedophilia) Maybe you have a filter that objects to archive.ph? The original article is here behind a paywall https://www.thetimes.com/article/will-the-trans-activists-ever-accept-they-lost-0rmnn9s7q

I think it must be archive.ph Maybe there is something else on that site it objects too!

Another factor with a lot of blame for having led so many kids into the weeds: being cool.

Yes, doctors and scientists and parents and teachers should have been pushing back from the start. But, honestly, are kids that susceptible to any of that? When tumblr and tiktok are on the other side?

Teaching uni, I've had a broadish sampling of young teenagers. Certainly for girls, being straight is just a ticket to devoting your life to an endless race to perfectly match Barbie. Very hard to be cool on that track. But if you're queer, bi, trans? Instant "oh so brave."

Not that it's an insight which helps figure out how to deal with it. The last way you can alter the course of what's "cool" is by interfering with what's "cool."

WTF!