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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jess Phillips appointed a minister to focus on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.

317 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 23:48

Jess Phillips has been appointed to the Labour government as a minister, focusing on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.

The Labour MP has been a vocal campaigner on the subject, and has become known for reading out a list of all the women killed by men in the UK every year on International Women's Day in parliament.

Ms Phillips had the role of shadow domestic violence and safeguarding minister from 2020 to 2023 under Sir Keir Starmer but resigned over the party's stance on the Middle East conflict in November.

She was one of 56 Labour MPs - including eight frontbenchers - to vote in favour of an SNP motion calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Middle East.

This defied the Labour whip, and so Ms Phillips had to step aside.

More ... https://news.sky.com/story/jess-phillips-made-minister-following-frontbench-resignation-over-middle-east-13175726

Jess Phillips made minister following frontbench resignation over Middle East

The Birmingham Yardley MP has been appointed to the Home Office team, working under Home Secretary Yvette Cooper. She previously held a shadow role for domestic violence and safeguarding but stood down last year.

https://news.sky.com/story/jess-phillips-made-minister-following-frontbench-resignation-over-middle-east-13175726

OP posts:
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zibzibara · 10/07/2024 01:17

It's pretty clear at this point you didn't come onto the thread to talk about Jess Phillips new role. Prove me wrong?

Humtum · 10/07/2024 01:19

IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 00:55

There are lots of existing threads and every opportunity to discuss other issues by creating your own threads.

Why is it that some never do this but just come on any old thread and raise red herrings.

Cant help but feel its main purpose is to deny potential productive exchanges and in the instance of this thread, what appears to be some good news.

Nobody is obliged to respond to obvious click bait.

I dont even particularly like J ess Pillips, let alone Starmer, but it is useful to be able to discuss seems to be good news, and how we can build on that.

Without getting too good vibey about it, it would be such a relief to be able to follow the issue of a thread through the potential it raises for us as women in day to day life.

I look forward to seeing many new threads raising the endless topic of what is or is not feminism.

This is about the practical reality of women's lives, and the continuing, never ending horror of male violence against women.

Show some respect.

Edited

Guilty of taking the bait on this thread - Points in this post noted, you're completely right!
*

I'm based in Scotland and totally delighted by Labours win - the diversity of their cabinet, with MPs from representative backgrounds is a breath of fresh air. I don't know a lot about JP other than being really moved by her a couple of years ago in the House of Commons reading the names of all the women that were killed (femicide reading). It went into 7+ minutes (I think it's a yearly reading she provides). The speaker at the end reminded her that there is a time limit.

maltravers · 10/07/2024 01:20

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:14

I’m ok with that. You can generalise about men and women. I’m happy to generalise too.

Generalising on the basis of a person’s age, race, sex or indeed trans identity does not reflect well on anyone dear.

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:22

MaidOfAle · 10/07/2024 01:15

Where did anyone say "all" men?

Fuck off with the NAMALT. The MRA vibes are strong from you.

I mean. Literally. Not all men are like that. As a group they’re fucking awful but I have a husband and a son and they’re not. My son is 1. I refuse to talk shit about an actual baby and reduce him to just his genitals. I also refuse to reduce myself to just my genitals.

as a group, boomers have fucked us millennials over with your free uni and cheap housing. But I’m sure you’ll all be on to tell me how it wasn’t like that for you in your cheap rented flat and no assets. Not all boomers right?

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 10/07/2024 01:29

Yes we have sons. Me and my GC husband are raising them to understand biology and critical thinking, to understand how sexism and patriarchy has arisen and debate how things might be done differently in future.

zibzibara · 10/07/2024 01:29

https://www.parallelparliament.co.uk/mp/jess-phillips

Some good info here about the work Jess has been doing in Parliament over the past decade, committees and APPGs she's been part of or chaired, and bills she's worked on.

Jess Phillips appointed a minister to focus on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.
Jess Phillips appointed a minister to focus on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.
cariadlet · 10/07/2024 01:31

Is there a Minister with specific responsibility for policing or is that under the remit of the Home Secretary?

I want to see police forces prioritising VAWG and tackling mysogyny within the police.

Hopefully, both of these will be among Jess Philips's priorities.

Humtum · 10/07/2024 01:33

MaidOfAle · 10/07/2024 01:08

That venn diagram is a well-known meme used to explain philosophical differences between three groups of people. It's not a journal paper.

A meme? Just the way you said "time for this again"... I thought it would be something, substantial + credible.

That's like me saying: "Time for this" (anticipating credible source to establish not only my opinion but fact)......

H

(Who doesn't love an image of a hoglet).

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 10/07/2024 01:36

Hippo, you're clearly very angry about a lot of things.

I'm not sure why you want to blame the posters here.

Nobody is reducing anybody to their genitals - that's a very disingenuous argument. But 2 sexes have evolved for a reason - it's how most animals reproduce (because it enables a greater variety of genetic material than asexual reproduction).

The 2 sexes have different genitals. That is a mostly irrelevant fact. It makes no difference to what job you do or clothes you can wear, or how you like to have your hair. But occasionally it matters - like in healthcare or single sex spaces.

Recognising that this difference exists is not 'reducing people to their genitals'.

zibzibara · 10/07/2024 01:37

Has anyone here read her book about life as an MP? I thumbed through it a while ago in Waterstones, she had some cracking anecdotes about the job. Didn't end up buying it in the end and forgot about it until now! Good read for those few snippets though.

cariadlet · 10/07/2024 01:38

No, but I read Truth to Power and really liked it.

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:42

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 10/07/2024 01:36

Hippo, you're clearly very angry about a lot of things.

I'm not sure why you want to blame the posters here.

Nobody is reducing anybody to their genitals - that's a very disingenuous argument. But 2 sexes have evolved for a reason - it's how most animals reproduce (because it enables a greater variety of genetic material than asexual reproduction).

The 2 sexes have different genitals. That is a mostly irrelevant fact. It makes no difference to what job you do or clothes you can wear, or how you like to have your hair. But occasionally it matters - like in healthcare or single sex spaces.

Recognising that this difference exists is not 'reducing people to their genitals'.

😂 yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

I’m angry that you’re hijacking feminism and women’s rights by punching down to another more marginalised community.

I’m angry that you’re using exactly the same rhetoric that was used against gay rights 50 years ago.

And I’m definitely angry that you all seem to be too ignorant and in trenched to recognise all of this.

Hey - that Stalin. Mostly bad ey? But at least he knew what a woman was.

coldpizzalover · 10/07/2024 01:42

I’m really grateful for the info here as it’s given me a different perspective on the appointments of JP and AD. I also have respect for how Jess deals with the appalling abuse she has faced in her constituency (by not being drawn into conflict around the religion/ethnicity of the men involved) because she is also holding onto the positive relationship she has with Muslim constituents. Thank you again for the info here

zibzibara · 10/07/2024 01:43

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:42

😂 yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

I’m angry that you’re hijacking feminism and women’s rights by punching down to another more marginalised community.

I’m angry that you’re using exactly the same rhetoric that was used against gay rights 50 years ago.

And I’m definitely angry that you all seem to be too ignorant and in trenched to recognise all of this.

Hey - that Stalin. Mostly bad ey? But at least he knew what a woman was.

Can you be angry in a different thread please?

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 01:44

zibzibara · 10/07/2024 01:43

Can you be angry in a different thread please?

Nope. I didn’t start this nonsense here. I just responded to it

MistyGreenAndBlue · 10/07/2024 01:46

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 00:42

I’m guessing you all came up through the feminism of the 80s, read a lot of Germaine Greer and refuse to believe the world has moved on without you

Except it HASN'T "moved on" if by that you mean "moved forward". If anything, we're regressing back to the bad old days of restrictive gender roles. You really can't see that?

MistyGreenAndBlue · 10/07/2024 01:54

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 00:55

Yep. You’re right. So what about infertile women. What about women who have had a hysterectomy. Are they still women? Do they still experience discrimination based on still looking like they could get pregnant. What about trans women who look like they could also get pregnant? Trans women who can be raped. What about very masculine presenting women? Are they still women? Even if they don’t look like women?

Its nuanced. The whole thing. But you all reduce it down to how female presenting you are.

Blimey. You don't often get an almost full house of TRA bingo in just one post.
Impressive. 😂

IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 02:01

Why is that? Why don't the board monitors want us talking about this?

Exactly

OP posts:
IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 02:14

yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

If you had made the effort to inform yourself before crashing in here like an out of control toddler, you would know that mumsnet create a separate thread for those who didn't want or dont accept the sex class analysis of feminis.

Its called Feminism Chat.

Why wouldn't you want to go and share your thought with those who think like you.

Why come on here with your whiny intolerance of older women, many of whom helped create the rights you now have, with this highly individualistic ranting.

Its about as useful and appropriate as being meat eater turning up at a vegetarian restuarant and screaming abuse a customers for eating vegitables.

But if you want to carry on with your relentless negativity you must be aware that you are achieving exactly the opposite of what is presumably your intention, to change our minds.

Sorry to further infuriate you but is just isnt going to work.

Many, many posters and readers on this board have day to day experience of teenage temper tantrums.

Has it occured to you that you just dont understand what others are saying, and this is what is driving you into this pantomime over the top performance of outrage.

Signed a totally unreconstructed dinosaur.

OP posts:
Ger1atricMillennial · 10/07/2024 02:19

I am glad that Jess Phillips has this role.

I am concerned that the focus on women's safety falls to much on women to solve when the issue is insecure and disempowered men who take their frustrations out on women.

I would love to see a man in a similar role to look after men and dismantle the deep misogyny that exists in male culture.

Ger1atricMillennial · 10/07/2024 02:39

AstonScrapingsNameChange · 10/07/2024 01:36

Hippo, you're clearly very angry about a lot of things.

I'm not sure why you want to blame the posters here.

Nobody is reducing anybody to their genitals - that's a very disingenuous argument. But 2 sexes have evolved for a reason - it's how most animals reproduce (because it enables a greater variety of genetic material than asexual reproduction).

The 2 sexes have different genitals. That is a mostly irrelevant fact. It makes no difference to what job you do or clothes you can wear, or how you like to have your hair. But occasionally it matters - like in healthcare or single sex spaces.

Recognising that this difference exists is not 'reducing people to their genitals'.

I would like to add a few things here.

  1. Sex is the first thing that is established about a human.
  2. Sex is not about genitals, it's about gametes. The producers of the large gametes are female, and the small gametes are male. This is consistent in all organisms that sexually reproduces i.e. why it is the male seahorse that is pregnant and not the female. In humans' females are born with all their gametes and males produce them after puberty. This is why humans cannot change sex.
  3. The human reproduction system is based on sexual dimorphism. Part of this is that the male is on average physically larger and stronger than the female. This is likely because we have evolved from an ancestor based on polygamy and males' reproductive success depended on their ability to fight other males. This is the reason that men have beards, as it significantly reduces the likelihood jaw fractures during fighting.

I have no doubt that there are a small number of individuals who experience such hatred of their sex-identifying characteristics that they are unable to function in society as the sex that they are. However, the constant denial of sex dysmorphia and demands on society in general regarding Self-ID are the worst thing to happen to acceptance of trans-people. It requires that people have to consistently deny reality which (as demonstrated) is simply unachievable long-term.

BurrosTail · 10/07/2024 02:47

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Male privilege feels kinda real to me now that my employer expects us women (the real cunty ones) be fine showering next to male cock because he has lady-feelz. Open plan showers, you see. Can’t use them anymore.

Do you even realise how out of touch your last sentence sounds?

yesmen · 10/07/2024 03:03

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 00:38

It’s not ironic at all. Check who’s in your camp. Those who hold to a very narrow view of what a woman is, tend to also be those who subscribe to a very narrow definition of what a woman can do.

Actually ...no.

You are wrong.

yesmen · 10/07/2024 03:06

Hiphopopotamonster · 10/07/2024 00:42

I’m guessing you all came up through the feminism of the 80s, read a lot of Germaine Greer and refuse to believe the world has moved on without you

Nope.

Discotrousers · 10/07/2024 03:17

IwantToRetire · 10/07/2024 02:14

yeah I’m angry that your ridiculous narrative has taken over mumsnet and that no subject can be talked about without first saying ‘well X doesn’t know what a woman is’.

If you had made the effort to inform yourself before crashing in here like an out of control toddler, you would know that mumsnet create a separate thread for those who didn't want or dont accept the sex class analysis of feminis.

Its called Feminism Chat.

Why wouldn't you want to go and share your thought with those who think like you.

Why come on here with your whiny intolerance of older women, many of whom helped create the rights you now have, with this highly individualistic ranting.

Its about as useful and appropriate as being meat eater turning up at a vegetarian restuarant and screaming abuse a customers for eating vegitables.

But if you want to carry on with your relentless negativity you must be aware that you are achieving exactly the opposite of what is presumably your intention, to change our minds.

Sorry to further infuriate you but is just isnt going to work.

Many, many posters and readers on this board have day to day experience of teenage temper tantrums.

Has it occured to you that you just dont understand what others are saying, and this is what is driving you into this pantomime over the top performance of outrage.

Signed a totally unreconstructed dinosaur.

Edited

And so say all (well, most) of us 👏👏👏👏