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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jess Phillips appointed a minister to focus on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.

317 replies

IwantToRetire · 09/07/2024 23:48

Jess Phillips has been appointed to the Labour government as a minister, focusing on tackling violence against women and girls and domestic violence.

The Labour MP has been a vocal campaigner on the subject, and has become known for reading out a list of all the women killed by men in the UK every year on International Women's Day in parliament.

Ms Phillips had the role of shadow domestic violence and safeguarding minister from 2020 to 2023 under Sir Keir Starmer but resigned over the party's stance on the Middle East conflict in November.

She was one of 56 Labour MPs - including eight frontbenchers - to vote in favour of an SNP motion calling for an immediate ceasefire in the Middle East.

This defied the Labour whip, and so Ms Phillips had to step aside.

More ... https://news.sky.com/story/jess-phillips-made-minister-following-frontbench-resignation-over-middle-east-13175726

Jess Phillips made minister following frontbench resignation over Middle East

The Birmingham Yardley MP has been appointed to the Home Office team, working under Home Secretary Yvette Cooper. She previously held a shadow role for domestic violence and safeguarding but stood down last year.

https://news.sky.com/story/jess-phillips-made-minister-following-frontbench-resignation-over-middle-east-13175726

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AlisonDonut · 15/07/2024 09:54

borntobequiet · 15/07/2024 09:15

When so many people conflate “sex” and “gender”, including individuals and organisations that should know better, when the precise meaning of “sex” is unclear in existing legislation, and when there exists a fiction that a woman can be a legal entity, rather than a biological one, yes, the meaning of “sex” must be more clearly defined in biological terms.

How many more times doesn't have to be explained?

If the term 'sex' becomes 'biological' then it concretises the term 'legal sex' in law which then leaves us with 4 different sexes.

The thing that causes this is the GRA. It needs to go.

Imnobody4 · 15/07/2024 10:13

AlisonDonut · 15/07/2024 09:54

How many more times doesn't have to be explained?

If the term 'sex' becomes 'biological' then it concretises the term 'legal sex' in law which then leaves us with 4 different sexes.

The thing that causes this is the GRA. It needs to go.

I agree with your reasoning absolutely. My problem is can we actually achieve the repeal of the GRA? I don't even understand what legal sex means, it's a bit like changing your nationality.

Maybe defining sex in the Equality Act as biological is the best we can achieve to allow gender to become separate.

We need some solid ground to stand on, we could be in danger of letting perfect be the enemy of the good. It's a gordian knot. Ask me next week and I'll probably have changed my mind.

borntobequiet · 15/07/2024 10:13

If the term 'sex' becomes 'biological' then it concretises the term 'legal sex' in law which then leaves us with 4 different sexes

No, it clarifies and defines the actual meaning of “sex”.

Agree that the GRA needs to go.

illinivich · 15/07/2024 10:22

OldCrone · 15/07/2024 09:43

The GRA is a document to give someone a gender, and be treated as if they are the opposite sex in certain situations, not that they are the opposite sex.

The GRA does say that the person becomes the opposite sex.

Where a full gender recognition certificate is issued to a person, the person’s gender becomes for all purposes the acquired gender (so that, if the acquired gender is the male gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a man and, if it is the female gender, the person’s sex becomes that of a woman).

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/section/9

And the EqA allows sevice providers to exclude those with a GRC from single sex provisions.

The law is, purposely, very confusing.

Its not helped that the media doesn't understand the issues and politicans get away with mumblings about process and 'less heat more light'.

The need for single sex spaces is based on sex differences, not id. To be able to provide different services based on sex, providers need to demonstrate it. It would be virtually impossible to demonstrate that there's a need for a service for a class of 'women, men with GRC, and excludes women with GRC'.

The practical problem is that men can change government issued identification to have 'female', or miss, mrs and ms, on them. With or without a GRC.

So even if the EqA is updated to clarify sex is sex, not gender identity, how can many serices providers exclude men practically?

zibzibara · 15/07/2024 10:23

Does the reason the GRA was introduced into law still apply? The last Labour government introduced it after losing the Goodwin case at the ECHR.

OldCrone · 15/07/2024 10:40

zibzibara · 15/07/2024 10:23

Does the reason the GRA was introduced into law still apply? The last Labour government introduced it after losing the Goodwin case at the ECHR.

I don't think the reasoning is still relevant. I think there were two main reasons for the ECHR ruling. One was that two people of the same sex should be allowed to marry, as long as one of them is legally recognised as the opposite sex. The other was something to do with the pension age for men and women being different.

Of course now that those reasons don't apply, the cries from the TRAs seem to be all about people simply having the right to choose their own sex. Which is utterly bonkers.

illinivich · 15/07/2024 10:44

I'm lead to believe that the GRA was also to allow GRC holders a certain amount of privacy to live in their aquired gender. Therefore a new birth certificate is issued and any link to their sex hidden.

I'd question if a new birth certificate does give the holder any privacy, and if a man should have that right anyway.

RedToothBrush · 15/07/2024 11:14

zibzibara · 15/07/2024 10:23

Does the reason the GRA was introduced into law still apply? The last Labour government introduced it after losing the Goodwin case at the ECHR.

Honestly. I don't believe it does.

IwantToRetire · 18/07/2024 01:13

Well this is getting more and more confusing.

Still nothing on the gov.uk site but now Jess Phillips has been called the "Safeguarding" Minister in this article https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jess-phillips-vows-new-start-33268237

I am not saying it isn't a good idea to have one, but in terms of tackling violence against women means it will means this will just be one of many she will have to oversee.

Labour vows 'new start' tackling 'national emergency' of violence against women

Jess Phillips will pledge to use 'every available measure' to deal with domestic abuse, intimidation, harrassment and violence, saying victims are being badly failed

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/jess-phillips-vows-new-start-33268237

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UtopiaPlanitia · 18/07/2024 15:23

That is a bit confusing and, as you say, tacking things like the brief for VAWG and safeguarding onto existing government posts doesn’t exactly scream ‘we see these things as priorities’.

IwantToRetire · 18/07/2024 16:54

UtopiaPlanitia · 18/07/2024 15:23

That is a bit confusing and, as you say, tacking things like the brief for VAWG and safeguarding onto existing government posts doesn’t exactly scream ‘we see these things as priorities’.

Exactly no Government official announcement.

But then they have tagged the split post of Minister for Women and Equalities onto existing posts.

You can see why Labour wouldn't be too worried about not being seen to be standing up for women, but to not think after all their jeering at the Tories that Equalities would be a lead issue, overarching as it were, everything they do.

But then no surprise that they talk big, but do little.

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MaidOfAle · 27/07/2024 18:32

in the real world, most people don’t spend their life ranting about migrants, Brexit and gender.
[...]
She is always quoting Tom, a former lift engineer who now does something to do with virtual reality that she doesn’t understand. “My husband says near daily, ‘Your perception is not real, nobody’s talking about this where I work, Jess.’”

Talking about gender identity politics the wrong way in any branch of tech will make you a pariah and will likely result in you being managed out. So of course Tom, who is working in tech, won't have heard anything gender critical at work.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 27/07/2024 19:29

MaidOfAle · 27/07/2024 18:32

in the real world, most people don’t spend their life ranting about migrants, Brexit and gender.
[...]
She is always quoting Tom, a former lift engineer who now does something to do with virtual reality that she doesn’t understand. “My husband says near daily, ‘Your perception is not real, nobody’s talking about this where I work, Jess.’”

Talking about gender identity politics the wrong way in any branch of tech will make you a pariah and will likely result in you being managed out. So of course Tom, who is working in tech, won't have heard anything gender critical at work.

Nothing says feminist like

my DH has a job I don’t understand ( what am I like eh?) but he says where he works it doesn’t get talked about so he’s probably right

I may be wrong but I suspect Toms techy work place is heavily male and therefore highly unlikely to be bothered about issues affecting women

IwantToRetire · 27/07/2024 19:32

I dont know which is worse.

That she really is like this, or play acted like this thinking its the Guardian and that's what they / their readers will respond to (after all it is to sell a book!).

And as for the photos.

Cringe

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IwantToRetire · 02/08/2024 18:00

At last - after nearly a month, Jess Phillips position has been officially listed on .gov.uk

Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State (Minister for Safeguarding and Violence Against Women and Girls)
Jess Phillips MP
https://www.gov.uk/government/people/jess-phillips

Jess Phillips MP

Jess Phillips MP

Jess Phillips was appointed Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Home Office on 9 July 2024. She was elected as the MP for Birmingham Yardley in July 2024.

https://www.gov.uk/government/people/jess-phillips

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