Starmer tw don't have the right to use women only toilets

[lcakethereforeIam]

It's a headline in the Telegraph. Unfortunately when I archive it it goes to an article about that twat Ashworth refusing to answer. So, I've screenshot the headline

This is exactly why I was departing goodbye 👋

That is indeed the problem in a nutshell.

You either ban all males from women's spaces whether they've had their cock chopped off or not, or you have to allow any male into any women's space for any reason.

There is nothing in between because there is no practical means of managing any in between solution.

I want the right to challenge a male who walks into the ladies toilets after my eight year old daughter.

I don't know if he's got a GRC (they don't tattoo it on the forehead) and I don't care.
90% of transwomen keep their male equipment. No surgery, no hormones; a few don't even bother to shave.

We don't have a reliable way of telling the good men from the bad, but we know that men as a sex class pose a danger to women. That's why its a blanket exclusion. Being trans does not change that.

Or you just provide totally separate toilets for them, I get that I really do. There is no inbetween, that’s the whole problem.

Sunshine might I suggest you look up Alan/Sarah Jane Baker w.r.t. castrated men being safer to be around?

https://the-lies-they-tell.org/2023/05/20/profile-of-trans-activist-sarah-jane-baker/

Sunshine, thankyou for your contributions and your clarifications. I hope you stick around, it’s always important to be able to test alternative views - whether there is a huge difference, or a very slight one.

@Sunshineandchill sadly there is a lot to worry about even with men who seek surgery and hormones.

This study has come up on Mumsnet a few times and it’s alarming because it revealed paedophilia among males seeking gender reassignment.

The study found that over a period of 5 years at an Oxford clinic, 2 out of 38 males were

“seeking gender reassignment to facilitate or normalise paedophilia. This latter small group described gender reassignment as a means by which to increase their intimate contact with children, which they viewed to be more socially acceptable in a female role.”

Gender reassignment: 5 years of referrals in Oxfordshire
Published online by Cambridge University Press: 02 January 2018 Volume 35 Issue 9 https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/the-psychiatrist/article/gender-reassignment-5-years-of-referrals-in-oxfordshire/6B5F217162ABD9B3189F2EB82787034E

This proves what lengths men will go to. It doesn’t say that they did or did not also have or claim to have gender dysphoria. And who could prove whether they genuinely did or didn’t. You can only go on what people say. Personality disorder was a common co-morbidity though. (Also autism) Maybe others who went through the service hid their motivations better.

These 2 men actually exist in real life not just on paper. Assuming they haven’t offended and been caught, they are out there and are enabled to use women’s spaces by the be kind and don’t ask questions ideology.

I always wonder where these men are now.

Exactly that. And it's not about the percentages, how many, etc. It's the simple fact that, if you leave the door open, predators will take advantage.

Can I ask why you think going through any process makes any difference?

A male declaring that they are a woman can only ever do this because they have either a stereotyped view of what a woman or girl is . OR they have rejected what they, personally, believe a man or boy is.

These male people cannot possibly understand the truth about growing up as a female person. Therefore, it is their own personal belief of what being a girl or woman is.

There are no tests at all for measuring ‘womanliness. it is misogynistic to suggest otherwise. So no psychological testing will change this misogynistic view.

The trouble with that is that many of them don't want separate toilets. Being in women's spaces is the point. (Not all. Some of them would love their own spaces.)

Well obviously I had not seen that. Exiting this now 👋

Spaces then whatever it takes. 👋

Yeah this is the point. Some of them say that if third spaces existed they wouldn't use them and would continue to use women's spaces regardless.

100% this

genuine people, men and women who genuinely want to be another sex.

Lots of people genuinely want things they can’t have. What if you genuinely want to be another ethnicity, or twice the height you are, or you genuinely want to be 25 when you’re 60? Why is sex different and everyone is expected to not be “weird” about it and go out of their way to help people pretend to be the opposite sex even if it puts them in danger?

There is far more of an argument that you should be able to “identify” as a different ethnicity- it actually is a spectrum and I have far more in common physiologically with every other woman of whatever heritage, than I do with any male. Yet we don’t enable that, because it’s bloody insulting to pretend you can have someone else’s lived experience that you will never actually understand, and even worse help yourself to roles, awards etc set aside for a group of people to redress imbalances. With ethnicity, we get that. Why can’t you see that with sex it’s even worse and obviously dangerous?

one thing that definitely brings home the reality of sex that is when you abandon sex-based categories, one sex pretty much exclusively suffers more and it’s the females. Put a male TW in a female prison - the woman are at risk. Put a female TM in a male prison - the TM is at risk. Same in toilets, changing rooms, hospital wards and sport. Women lose out who ever pretends to be the opposite sex. That’s why there are sex categories in the first place. To protect women and girls.

I always find it interesting that when women explain in very plain terms the reality of deciding to be kind to men who have tried hard enough, who don't personally bother or affect the speaker, they graciously withdraw the hem of their robe and leave the conversation.

By which demonstrating that yes, they do believe that (other) women should be sacrificed to men's interests and that this is right and in order. But they do not actually have the courage to say that and defend their position.

What you and so many others fail to recognise, that it isn't their own spaces they want.

Like when they opened a 'third' category in sports. Nobody entered.

It is domination and infiltration of women's spaces they want. Not their own. They already have that. Because they are men.

Third spaces have been rejected so many times now that it's a joke.

The sporting world saw that very clearly when one event put on 3 races - men's, women's and open, third gender neurltral race. I think it was swimming?

Not one entrant. Not a single blasted tw.

Yet tw whined about being banned and excluded because they were not allowed to enter the women's race.

They were offered a solution, they threw it back at the organisers. They didn't want to race. They wanted to race against women, change with women, shove a woman out of her own category.

It's not about just peeing. It's about all the thrills and pleasures that come from sliding into forbidden territory. Then having a piss on it.

I agree and would add that any man who follows your 8yr old into the female toilet is not a good man, regardless of GRC/hormone treatment/penis amputation or not.

It's not about just peeing. It's about all the thrills and pleasures that come from sliding into forbidden territory. Then having a piss on it.

And enjoying the reactions of the women being so dominated and not being able to do a thing about it.

Does anyone else remember a time when Sunak didn’t want to answer the question “what is a woman?” At that stage I think he wasn’t sure how he was going to position himself.
I think Starmers new position is a testimony to how effective the gender critical lobby have been. I imagine politicians mostly hate this issue because it’s so hard to tell where “history” is going to land on it. The reality is if you’re relatively wealthy enough you can largely buy your way out of it ever effecting your or your family (or at least you think you can). Most politicians in the UK probably fall into this category.

A very readable article by Victoria Smith in Unherd

https://thecritic.co.uk/why-labour-doesnt-understand-the-gender-wars/

There mention of a book due out soon, 'Hounded' by Jenny Lindsay.

I am worried that the last year or so will turn out to have been a brief period during which a light was shone on the absurdity and unfairness of trans activism, and then after Thursday all progress will be lost and women will have no voice again. Doubly so if the Lib Dems end up being the official opposition.

I'm also voting in France on Sunday, and the situation is even more depressing here. The choice is essentially between the far right or the loony left who want to bring in self ID as a matter of priority. Macron made a disparaging remark about the far left who want people to just be able to pop down to the town hall and change their legal gender and has faced accusations of transphobia including from within his own party. I mean, he's not wrong but seriously, how on earth did he think saying that right now would help?

While there is obviously that power/abusive angle to some TWs' motivations, I'm convinced that the motivation of the vast majority of males wanting to access female spaces is simply because they feel good being validated as women, they are on their journey to be accepted as women and their feelings are the only ones that ever occur to them.

As entitled and misogynistic men, it simply doesn't occur to them that women (who they typically regard as NPCs) have any distinct feelings or needs at all.

I'm afraid I'm a lot more cynical, with this having come from a lot of bitter experience.

Whether you wish to use a woman as a resource and prop in your feeling good about being a woman in a woman's space doing women things, or use her to enjoy her sympathy/disgust/fear, or to use her to enjoy other aspects of experience isn't really relevant. The problem is the using part, and that it involves removing women's equality and excluding women in order for men to do it.