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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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42
AlisonDonut · 26/06/2024 10:09

mrstrickland · 26/06/2024 08:07

It's like a watching a pack of hyenas on this thread. Do any of you think for yourselves?

(have none of you ever told someone to shut up before.....?)

So a man can go in front of an audience, and be broadcast across the globe calling for people to take action to get a woman to 'not exist anymore' and that's fine.

But some women saying 'thats actually not a good thing' are hyenas?

UpThePankhurst · 26/06/2024 10:10

INeedAPensieve · 26/06/2024 09:59

And again for those at the back not paying attention:-

A very privileged, rich man stood up on a public platform to accept an award; during his acceptance speech he expressed a wish that a female MP should not exist and wanted her to shut up.

This female MP may have views that many of us on here disagree with (I know I do), but in light of all the threats that female MPs experience as part of public life (and the fact that a female MP was murdered during a previous election campaign), this was a very unwise, stupid thing to do.

I feel chilled by this, I feel that he is no different to the Andrew Tates and Nigel Farages of this world; it is deeply embedded misogyny of the highest order and because he is who he is, this man will not be held to account.

So I and many others have come onto Mumsnet to express our dismay, our fear and our disgust at this behaviour. This is not about political affiliations. This is about calling out misogyny, regardless of who is doing it.

This.

The biggest problem in all of this that society faces right now, is an increasing belief that if you don't like or agree with someone, you are entitled to declare them subhuman and they can be treated how you like.

Breaking society down into the 'powerful ones like me who get rights because they think like I do' and 'those scum who don't matter and aren't one of us' is the basic attitude behind things like colonialism, slavery and most of the atrocities of the past centuries that the left soooo love to bore the living hell out of people about, while identifying as caring about such things.

Not that the right are much better, but the left have this really embedded now and it's deeply ugly. It should never be excused and reinforced as 'well I don't care that he said a black woman should not exist (die) for protecting women's rights and child safeguarding in ways that annoy me, cos she's not someone I like or care about'.

Ozanj · 26/06/2024 10:10

david tennent’s reaction is why people of colour are leaving lgbt+ / pride / stonewall in droves. It’s no longer a place where we feel safe.

Summerfreezemakesmedrinkwine · 26/06/2024 10:12

PronounssheRa · 26/06/2024 10:02

Dawn was foolish, she has just given a free pass to any knuckle dragging racist to say the same thing about her.

Dawn Butler is a fully paid up member of the gender faith. It's entirely predictable that she's happy to endorse telling another politician to shut up.

Meanwhile, Streeting is in the Telegraph, telling everyone that Labour has turned a corner and can do a better job of listening to women 😁

Trying to get everyone to row back with him after he encouraged all of this shit would be comical if it weren't so desperately important.

Hoardasurass · 26/06/2024 10:23

CantDealwithChristmas · 26/06/2024 08:10

Yep, or the Scots turning up from Scandinavia and colonising the native Picts (albeit they gradually harried the Picts out of existence other than to the highlands).

Actually fife was the last home of the picts, it's called the kingdom of fife for a reason

RantyRantington · 26/06/2024 10:24

Streeting encouraged so much of this shit in the first place by not listening.
Now he's giving Corporal Jones a run for his money with his don't panic Captain Mainwaring.

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 10:31

RantyRantington · 26/06/2024 10:24

Streeting encouraged so much of this shit in the first place by not listening.
Now he's giving Corporal Jones a run for his money with his don't panic Captain Mainwaring.

Animated GIF

There’s a lot of parallels to draw between this whole debacle and Dad’s Army, not least the “Your name vill also go on ze list!” attitude expressed by the TRAs

All together now:

Whistle while you work
Tennant is a twerp
He’s half barmy, so’s the TRA Army
Whistle while you work!

😜

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/06/2024 10:56

TWETMIRF · 26/06/2024 08:53

His father was a priest, I thought christians were supposed to love thy neighbour. Seems to be love thy neighbour unless they think the wrong thoughts in which case they become subhuman and then anything goes

Minister in the Church of Scotland, I think. Presbyterian, i.e. Calvinist, so not a priest. I was brought up in that church so this is a kneejerk response even after decades of atheism!

DramaLlamaBangBang · 26/06/2024 10:59

the left have this really embedded now and it's deeply ugly. It should never be excused and reinforced as 'well I don't care that he said a black woman should not exist (die) for protecting women's rights and child safeguarding in ways that annoy me, cos she's not someone I like or care about
Many women on the Left know that there is a nasty streak of misogyny running right through it. The Trans Rights movement they have so enthusiastically endorsed because middle class privileged White men can also be the oppressed and downtrodden, without losing any privilege, and as a bonus allows then to patronise and bully women openly.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/06/2024 11:10

RoyalCorgi · 26/06/2024 09:20

Ah, he always used to come across as a lovely warm person.

I think attacking an individual personally - rather than their opinions - is almost always a bad idea. It's bad because it suggests you're not a very nice person and it also suggests that you are not able to argue your case on its own merits.

Does it matter that Kemi Badenoch is a black woman? Would it have been OK if he'd attacked a white man? Well, no, it wouldn't have been OK if he'd made the same unpleasant remarks about (say) Jeremy Hunt. But yes, it does look worse when it's a Black woman, because of the long historical tradition of men trying to silence women (witch trials etc) and of white people persecuting Black people, through slavery, violence, rape and denying them basic civil rights. That's the context that makes a white man telling a Black woman to shut up particularly grotesque.

It's interesting that an apparently intelligent person like Tennant couldn't see that.

Regarding whether it would also matter if a white person had been verbally attacked in this way,

I actually think it would matter too, even if not to the same extent, if it had been a white woman, or a white man, well known, and especially if they are in public office.

All MPs are vulnerable now if you think of what happened to Jo Cox, and David Amess.

But, publicly naming a black woman MP adds another level of danger on top;

Publicly calling out a black woman MP for her work for women and children through trying to put safeguards in the Equality Act to preserve their female only sex based spaces…

to entitled, male, TRA aggressors who think they own the rights to those women’s spaces…

multiplies the potential threat to her.

RoyalCorgi · 26/06/2024 11:18

You're absolutely right, Scrolling. MPs, and female MPs in particular, are subject to threats of murder and violence all the time. Trans activists as a gorup largely consist of aggressive males who cover their faces and intimidate women in person. For him to say he wants a world in which she "doesn't exist any more" is inviting these people to target her. I find it frightening.

Datun · 26/06/2024 11:20

You have to remember, that not only did he go on a public platform, at an awards ceremony, where he would've spent some time considering what to say, he called for a woman to stop existing, told her to shut up, and all because he thinks his child is neither male nor female!

it's not only what he said, it's the basis on which he said it.

It's utterly insane. You think my child has a sex, you should cease to exist!!

CrossPurposes · 26/06/2024 11:22

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 26/06/2024 10:56

Minister in the Church of Scotland, I think. Presbyterian, i.e. Calvinist, so not a priest. I was brought up in that church so this is a kneejerk response even after decades of atheism!

Not any old minister either but was once moderator of the general assembly of the church of Scotland - quite the most prominent role you can hold (albeit for a year only) in the church.

Datun · 26/06/2024 11:22

And I agree with the PP that he totally doesn't realise how partisan his audience is. He knew he'd get soft landing there, but doesn't have a clue about the rest of the country.

and it would appear from the btl comments, everywhere, that the rest of the country have massively wised up.

AlisonDonut · 26/06/2024 11:24

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 10:31

There’s a lot of parallels to draw between this whole debacle and Dad’s Army, not least the “Your name vill also go on ze list!” attitude expressed by the TRAs

All together now:

Whistle while you work
Tennant is a twerp
He’s half barmy, so’s the TRA Army
Whistle while you work!

😜

He has had his little list since around 2018.

INeedAPensieve · 26/06/2024 11:30

Anything yet from the BBC? Or the Guardian? Anything?

FunkyMonks · 26/06/2024 11:34

What a prick of a man I use to like him not anymore how disgusting to tell another woman to shut up yet another white male telling a woman how to go about her business.

I agree with her and I hope that biological women never back down I for one will never for the sake of my little girl I don't want her to ever feel threatened or in danger or told to shut up and put up with it.

I hope he gets cancelled absolute bellend Angry

Superhansrantowindsor · 26/06/2024 11:43

Title of this thread should be amended to put out that he also said he didn’t want her to exist which I think is even worse than the shut up comment.

ArabellaScott · 26/06/2024 11:48

ScrollingLeaves · 26/06/2024 11:10

Regarding whether it would also matter if a white person had been verbally attacked in this way,

I actually think it would matter too, even if not to the same extent, if it had been a white woman, or a white man, well known, and especially if they are in public office.

All MPs are vulnerable now if you think of what happened to Jo Cox, and David Amess.

But, publicly naming a black woman MP adds another level of danger on top;

Publicly calling out a black woman MP for her work for women and children through trying to put safeguards in the Equality Act to preserve their female only sex based spaces…

to entitled, male, TRA aggressors who think they own the rights to those women’s spaces…

multiplies the potential threat to her.

The language he used was odd.

If I were angry at a politician I might wish them out of the job. I can also see 'shut up' being logical, even with a misogynist edge.

But to wish she 'didn't exist anymore' is a sublimated expression of violence, and not even all that sublimated tbh.

dougalfromthemagicroundabout · 26/06/2024 11:50

Yeah basically it's 'black woman shouldn't live if she has her own opinions and doesn't bow down before white celebrity man' isn't it?

OvaHere · 26/06/2024 11:52

Datun · 26/06/2024 11:20

You have to remember, that not only did he go on a public platform, at an awards ceremony, where he would've spent some time considering what to say, he called for a woman to stop existing, told her to shut up, and all because he thinks his child is neither male nor female!

it's not only what he said, it's the basis on which he said it.

It's utterly insane. You think my child has a sex, you should cease to exist!!

Yes this.

When you dig down into what this is actually about it's profoundly weird.

dougalfromthemagicroundabout · 26/06/2024 11:55

I bet he thinks he's not a racist, too, because he's woke, but it seems quite racists to me when left wing people seem outraged that people of colour have their own opinions and might not agree with their obviously correct opinions

It's particularly noticeable when it comes to Conservative women - Suella Braverman suffered a lot from this too.

I think lefty wokebros just expect these women to be eternally grateful to them for being so right on.

Kemi could run rings around David T intellectually. I'd love to see them have a debate.

JaninaDuszejko · 26/06/2024 11:57

Tennant is a rare State School educated working/lower middle class actor, so I would have thought he'd have a bit of insight, but no.

His father was a Church of Scotland minister and Moderator of the General Assembly. His school (Paisley Grammar School) was founded in 1576 by royal charter of King James VI making it one of the oldest schools in Scotland. It was private until the 1960s. That all sounds solidly middle class to me, just because he has a Scottish accent doesn't mean he's working class.

ScrollingLeaves · 26/06/2024 12:03

Violetparis · 26/06/2024 08:11

Dawn Butler has tweeted that she agrees with David Tennant. Wonder if this is going to get more media coverage now a Labour MP has got involved.

Another Labour MP to say the Equality Act should not be clarified - so that men who say they are women, who have a GRC which will be easier to get under Labour, and men who do not, as no one will ask, can get a free pass through the sex based exemptions in the Equality Act which supposedly allow female only spaces.

If DT, the crowd’s, and Dawn’s reasoning is that Kemi’s plans for amending the EA would remove males (transwomen) from women’s spaces, that means women and girls are losing rights to female only spaces as things stand.

But Kier, lying or dissembling, says the Equality Act does not need clarifying, and goes on about how they will protect women’s sex based spaces, or safe spaces (it depends on his mood).

while Bridget Phillipson, on the other hand, told everyone that yes, with a GRC ticket, a man who says he is a woman ( no surgery needed, nothing needed really), and one without, as no one will ask to see the ticket, can use female toilets.

Toilets are just a start.

They are very angry at Kemi Badenoch wanting to clarify the meaning of Sex in the Equality Act, and no doubt do wish she would magically disappear, as sadly, on these issues, there is probably no one else with her level of understanding and intellect to replace her.

Anyone in Labour like her would be quelled at first peep.

PronounssheRa · 26/06/2024 12:13

ScrollingLeaves · 26/06/2024 12:03

Another Labour MP to say the Equality Act should not be clarified - so that men who say they are women, who have a GRC which will be easier to get under Labour, and men who do not, as no one will ask, can get a free pass through the sex based exemptions in the Equality Act which supposedly allow female only spaces.

If DT, the crowd’s, and Dawn’s reasoning is that Kemi’s plans for amending the EA would remove males (transwomen) from women’s spaces, that means women and girls are losing rights to female only spaces as things stand.

But Kier, lying or dissembling, says the Equality Act does not need clarifying, and goes on about how they will protect women’s sex based spaces, or safe spaces (it depends on his mood).

while Bridget Phillipson, on the other hand, told everyone that yes, with a GRC ticket, a man who says he is a woman ( no surgery needed, nothing needed really), and one without, as no one will ask to see the ticket, can use female toilets.

Toilets are just a start.

They are very angry at Kemi Badenoch wanting to clarify the meaning of Sex in the Equality Act, and no doubt do wish she would magically disappear, as sadly, on these issues, there is probably no one else with her level of understanding and intellect to replace her.

Anyone in Labour like her would be quelled at first peep.

While Rachel reeves says "we will protect women only spaces based on biological sex”

https://twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1805609865873604808

Labour haven't a clue what their own policy is.

x.com

https://twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1805609865873604808