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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JKR calls Labour's Bluff - Offering Meeting leadership only on her terms

382 replies

fromorbit · 24/06/2024 20:44

JKR is playing at a different level. After Starmer and Reeves offered to meet with her she gave them her conditions.

I'll be happy to meet after NoXYinXXprisons, Lesbian Labour, Womens Rights Network, WomansPlaceUK and Alliance LGB have been given in person meetings with the Labour leadership. I'd also like to know whether Angela Rayner still considers the last two organisations hate groups.

They are trapped either they now have to meet with gay and women's groups and listen to them something they are desperate not to do. It is not impossible then that Reeves at least can be made to see some sense. Even talking with these groups and JKR will also make TRAs go ballistic and many will leave the party. Chances are that Labour will promise a bunch of stuff to JKR which If Labour still follow gender nonsense after that they can be fully held to account for. If they promise single sex spaces are safe then every time that is breached Labour's credibility will be on the line

Or if they refuse to meet with the groups they prove EVERYTHING JKR said in her essay was right.

The media are now hyping the meeting further locking Labour in

BRING IT ON
Keir Starmer insists he WILL meet with JK Rowling to thrash out trans and gender rights & ‘respects’ her views
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28714134/keir-starmer-jk-rowling-trans/

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/24/labour-gender-transition-recognition-process-trans.

a woman in a blue dress stands in front of a sign that says rift

Keir insists he WILL meet with JK Rowling to thrash out trans and gender rights

KEIR Starmer has tonight insisted he will meet with JK Rowling to thrash out trans and gender rights – saying he “respects her views”. The Labour leader dropped the bombshell …

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/28714134/keir-starmer-jk-rowling-trans

OP posts:
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LarkLane · 26/06/2024 21:12

Shame on Starmer, bringing in Brianna Ghey as a dig against Sunak instead of honest answer.
That poor family having their child used like this.

duc748 · 26/06/2024 21:13

Can't believe KS tried the Brianna Ghey gambit again! 😡

LarkLane · 26/06/2024 21:15

Jeez. That was Starmer's chance to give clear direct answer.
Sunaks on Rosie Duffield now.

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 21:15

Bloody hell, why does KS KEEP bringing up that child in response to answers about this subject - it's in extremely poor taste and he should know better given the judge's reasoning in the case and KS being ex-CPS.

LarkLane · 26/06/2024 21:18

KS is a lawyer. Head of CPS he keeps telling everyone. Yet he can't clarify a question on biological sex, we should read the legislation he says.
And a lawyer using that young murdered person to score a point. He's lost it for me. Shameful carry on.

TeamKenwood · 26/06/2024 21:28

Keir Starmer using Brianna Ghey as a human shield again. Then swiftly moving away from women’s rights to the ‘we all need to be nicer to each other’ gambit. He’ll flip flop on pretty much everything, but not this. I wonder why?

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 21:30

We've obviously found Captain Flip Flop's One True Belief, Kenwood

He seems to wholeheartedly believe men can be women if they want to - his other beliefs are more flexible.

LarkLane · 26/06/2024 21:38

What a shit show that was from Starmer. Piss poor .

Datun · 26/06/2024 21:40

Crikey, he didn't bring that up again, did he? Talk about not being able to read the room.

duc748 · 26/06/2024 21:44

Datun · 26/06/2024 21:40

Crikey, he didn't bring that up again, did he? Talk about not being able to read the room.

Well, quite, The gross ineptness, apart from anything else. It didn't go down well; there was a loud shriek from the back of the room!

ResisterRex · 26/06/2024 21:53

Starmer absolutely fucked it. He can FOTTFSOFAFOSM. I'm not voting for them. Over my dead body.

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 22:12

JKR is voting Independent (well I know we already knew that was the most likely outcome)

JKR calls Labour's Bluff - Offering Meeting leadership only on her terms
LarkLane · 26/06/2024 22:13

The first time I won't be voting Labour, and I've had a vote for a very long time.

Using a dead child over and over to try and score a political point against your opponent whilst fudging your own position is gutter politics.

BreatheAndFocus · 26/06/2024 22:15

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 21:30

We've obviously found Captain Flip Flop's One True Belief, Kenwood

He seems to wholeheartedly believe men can be women if they want to - his other beliefs are more flexible.

I think that’s because he sees the issue as absolutely trivial, so hasn’t bothered to give it much thought, or read anything, or listen to any opposing arguments. To him, it’s just a few silly women making a fuss about nothing because they’re being a bit hysterical.

The other issues he sees as important so he’s keen to flip and flop whichever way he thinks will make him look best.

Starmer is a total waste of space and the only thing he can offer us is his complete disdain and dismissal of women’s rights. I’d no more vote for him than a turkey would vote for Christmas.

CaveMum · 26/06/2024 22:19

Victoria Atkins v Wes Streeting on Newsnight later. Now based on Wes’ Damocean conversion of late he should theoretically agree with Victoria on the women’s rights aspect of the debate which could put KS in an awkward position.

LarkLane · 26/06/2024 22:22

I'll be watching that, I want to see it all play out now..

duc748 · 26/06/2024 22:34

I think that’s because he sees the issue as absolutely trivial, so hasn’t bothered to give it much thought, or read anything, or listen to any opposing arguments. To him, it’s just a few silly women making a fuss about nothing because they’re being a bit hysterical.

I dunno; who knows what's going on in his head. But I find that a bit hard to buy. just can't believe he isn't perfectly aware of the issues, there's the Cass Review for a start. And everyone in England has had a ring-side seat as we've watched the SNP in Scotland over the last few years. I think it's more, he has personal skin the game, maybe, but mostly that if he stands up and denounces TRAs, he's scared of losing much of his support, the unions etc. Hence bekindism continues.

JanesLittleGirl · 26/06/2024 22:51

It has persuaded me to get off the fence and vote Tory.

LarkLane · 26/06/2024 23:03

I'm going for the local bloke who is concerned about the children's A and E.

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 23:33

I'm finished watching the debate now and based on the answers given, I'm not voting to support Labour. I'm going to hold my nose and vote for one of the parties that supports the Conservatives (i have to vote this way because neither Labour or Tories are running candidates in my constituency in this election).

This is a weird and very disheartening place to be because it seems that I really did (stupidly) hold on to a secret hope that the brilliant women campaigning would bring Keir round to seeing that women have needs and we have rights and we need single-sex services and spaces. But Keir has only budged (grudgingly) to the point that he said tonight that he supports organisations using legal exceptions to make spaces and services single-sex if they want to but he's seen mixed sex services and spaces work really well and so he's not going to do anything to strengthen women's rights in these areas or to ensure that women in law means adult human female ONLY.

I'm no longer happy to put up with condescension like that. Sunak was clear on the issue and I was happy to hear it discussed by him in a serious manner.

OvaHere · 26/06/2024 23:36

duc748 · 26/06/2024 22:34

I think that’s because he sees the issue as absolutely trivial, so hasn’t bothered to give it much thought, or read anything, or listen to any opposing arguments. To him, it’s just a few silly women making a fuss about nothing because they’re being a bit hysterical.

I dunno; who knows what's going on in his head. But I find that a bit hard to buy. just can't believe he isn't perfectly aware of the issues, there's the Cass Review for a start. And everyone in England has had a ring-side seat as we've watched the SNP in Scotland over the last few years. I think it's more, he has personal skin the game, maybe, but mostly that if he stands up and denounces TRAs, he's scared of losing much of his support, the unions etc. Hence bekindism continues.

I think this is what angers me the most. Labour seem to think it's enough to arrive at the eleventh hour with some vague platitudes about women's safe spaces.

It's not enough. It's not even a teeny fraction of a percentage of enough.

Like a lot of women here and women no longer on MN but still involved in activism I've been pushing back on this for almost a decade now.

In this decade women have been subjected to so much abuse, violence, violent rhetoric and threats.

We've lost women's spaces and the right to say no to that. Women have lost to cheating men in sports over and over again.

Women have been raped in female prisons because this ideology put dangerous men in there.

Women have lost their jobs, been hounded by police for the faux crime of not believing men are women.

A man who holds terrible views about rape victims is still the head of ERCC.

We've had to crowdfund over and over to try and get justice for women and to protect children from an appalling medical scandal (winning the vast majority of cases I should add).

To do this many women have scrimped and donated their last spare fiver because it matters that much to us.

All of the above (and much more besides) that has taken place over the last 10 years is still not being acknowledged by Keir Starmer and Labour. I doubt he even knows about a fraction of it because he's never bothered to listen or find out.

I'm sure he's probably frustrated and perplexed as to why his pathetic bothsidesism, allusions to toxic debate and culture wars is not being accepted by women. Why won't they just accept these crumbs I'm throwing them a week before the election?

This is why Sir Keir. Too much has happened to women and girls in the name of this ideology for crumbs to be sufficient.

Labour are not wholly to blame for all these things that have happened to women but they do need to acknowledge it has happened which at the moment they are not doing and nor are they owning up to the parts they have played.

I often see it commented that most of this has happened under a Conservative government which is true, it has. The main difference is though the majority of Conservatives will now admit what has happened.

Labour are still stuck pretending most of it hasn't or they're genuinely ignorant about it because they never started listening which at least the Conservatives did eventually.

It took a while to get the Conservatives to start listening but bit by bit they did starting many years ago now with David TC Davies, the Welsh Minister who let the WNTT women meet in a HoC room after Millwall FC allowed themselves to be intimidated by threatening TRAs.

Labour today, numerous years on from that WNTT meeting, are still not yet at the point where they would allow women to meet to discuss our concerns. How many more years will women have to wait for them to acknowledge any of the above has even occurred?

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/06/2024 23:40

Ova, honestly you summed things up so well 👏👏

LarkLane · 26/06/2024 23:41

Thank you for your post Ova.

Morwenscapacioussleeves · 26/06/2024 23:45

OvaHere · 26/06/2024 23:36

I think this is what angers me the most. Labour seem to think it's enough to arrive at the eleventh hour with some vague platitudes about women's safe spaces.

It's not enough. It's not even a teeny fraction of a percentage of enough.

Like a lot of women here and women no longer on MN but still involved in activism I've been pushing back on this for almost a decade now.

In this decade women have been subjected to so much abuse, violence, violent rhetoric and threats.

We've lost women's spaces and the right to say no to that. Women have lost to cheating men in sports over and over again.

Women have been raped in female prisons because this ideology put dangerous men in there.

Women have lost their jobs, been hounded by police for the faux crime of not believing men are women.

A man who holds terrible views about rape victims is still the head of ERCC.

We've had to crowdfund over and over to try and get justice for women and to protect children from an appalling medical scandal (winning the vast majority of cases I should add).

To do this many women have scrimped and donated their last spare fiver because it matters that much to us.

All of the above (and much more besides) that has taken place over the last 10 years is still not being acknowledged by Keir Starmer and Labour. I doubt he even knows about a fraction of it because he's never bothered to listen or find out.

I'm sure he's probably frustrated and perplexed as to why his pathetic bothsidesism, allusions to toxic debate and culture wars is not being accepted by women. Why won't they just accept these crumbs I'm throwing them a week before the election?

This is why Sir Keir. Too much has happened to women and girls in the name of this ideology for crumbs to be sufficient.

Labour are not wholly to blame for all these things that have happened to women but they do need to acknowledge it has happened which at the moment they are not doing and nor are they owning up to the parts they have played.

I often see it commented that most of this has happened under a Conservative government which is true, it has. The main difference is though the majority of Conservatives will now admit what has happened.

Labour are still stuck pretending most of it hasn't or they're genuinely ignorant about it because they never started listening which at least the Conservatives did eventually.

It took a while to get the Conservatives to start listening but bit by bit they did starting many years ago now with David TC Davies, the Welsh Minister who let the WNTT women meet in a HoC room after Millwall FC allowed themselves to be intimidated by threatening TRAs.

Labour today, numerous years on from that WNTT meeting, are still not yet at the point where they would allow women to meet to discuss our concerns. How many more years will women have to wait for them to acknowledge any of the above has even occurred?

THIS
This is why I won't be voting Labour, and because I'm a unionist my other options are An independent that makes Reform look a bit lefty 😱 or the Conservatives...

Hairyesterdaygonetoday · 27/06/2024 00:02

Oh I love love love love love this. Nasty self-righteous but not-very-bright bullies gang up on cool woman, who elegantly runs rings round them while writing her next best-seller.

In my mind’s eye JKR is sipping a cocktail and glancing occasionally at news or social media before taking a moment to send her next powerful response.

I hope life rewards JKR with every possible blessing.