JKR in The Times. Labour have dismissed women like me

[impossibletoday]

https://www.thetimes.com/article/860b9b92-9b0d-4321-ba97-6a18b367bdf4?shareToken=fc3cf82fe46fc9169528ed540751fc27

Yes this.

It's a fair point but I think when push comes to shove, farmers will still vote blue.

So who are people going to vote for?

I finally resigned myself that voting labour was the best call last night. But this has put me in a spin again. I feel strongly about women’s rights and how the Labour Party have screwed us over. BUT I absolutely can’t vote Tory. Out of all my local candidates I actually like the Labour one, so if not them who…

Independant - seems nice enough, but isn’t going to stand a chance I feel the vote would be wasted
Green - info on candidate is non existent, also greens won’t get anywhere.
Alliance for Democracy and Freedom - Hard no
Reform - are actually building momentum in some parts of the electorate. Could I vote for them hhhmmmm 🤔 Well even if I could I can’t stand the candidate so that’s my answer.
Lib Dems - never really thought much of them.

It’s so hard, there is the line that the shit show has happened under Tory rule so anything they say now to back track is bollox. Labours stance on women and trans issues has been horrendous though, so will it change with Labour, do we give them a chance, how much dose this one issue mean against every other issue on the table, NHS, Education, Economy, Immigration, Policing…. This is my struggle which given my stance is that other women died and fought for my right to vote and have a say so I could never dream of not voting, but it is so hard for me and other women right now to know what’s best.

SDP for me.

I'd vote for the indie in your shoes, @AliceMcK, or spoil my vote. That's what I'm doing here.

Doing either isn't a 'waste' of a vote. It's confirming that none of the other parties are right for you. That's what voting is.

I have a straight choice of green, blue, red, new purple or yellow.

No one remotely interesting.

Exactly. Let's not patronise parties and let them off with a shit policy offering, as if they did their best and that's what counts. It's a general election to decide the next government, not the year 1 sports day.

I'll base my choice on my local candidates, Libdem, Tory, or Labour. I won't vote SNP.

I'm still waiting to see who's going to email/write back to me.

I've no idea who I'll vote for. My constituency area has no good choices.

Not sure if this has already been posted, but this has now made it into the Guardian. Once you get passed the inevitable 'it's about trans rights' it's pretty damming it the way it lays out the "I can't hear women' aspect of the Duffield/Blair issue.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/jun/22/starmer-says-he-is-proud-of-labour-record-on-womens-rights-after-jk-rowling-criticism

The candidates standing where I live are all dispiriting to look at. Seven men, all white and middle aged, except for the Labour candidate who is young and beardy and looks suspiciously like a 'be kind' type. I despise them all, they all look so smug, and cannot bring myself to vote for any of them. I think I'll be spoiling my ballot for this one.

Thanks for the link, is even the Guardian getting just a little bit nervous?

I have no truck with the argument that the timing of this is bad and that women have a duty to take one for the team. Labour have had years to get to grips with this had they chosen to do so.

Like many other posters, I was cautiously heartened by their statement last year that they were moving away from self-ID. I could see it raised more questions than it answered but still I hoped it would be a start.

At that point, the leadership could have approached Rosie Duffield and the Labour Women's Declaration for advice. Instead they chose to hide behind that statement and to fatuously repeat, 'Let me be clear' when we could all see they were anything but. Even the other week, they were still labelling it all a toxic culture war. And even today, Starmer dodges the question about apologising to Rosie Duffield.

And some people think I should give up my one, solitary bargaining chip which will expire on July 4th? Absolutely no way, Sunshines. I'm lucky, I have an independent to vote for but if I didn't, I'd spoil my vote before I endorsed those absolute clowns.

What frustrates me so much is that they could still do the right thing even now. They could pick up the phone, call Rosie D or the Labour Women's Declaration and ask them what to do. Or, if the thought of going cap in hand to women is too much for them, they could even ask Wes Streeting.

Musing a bit. I've heard a few political commentators moan about how boring the election campaign has been apart from Sunak's unforced errors. There isn't really any jeopardy and the only thing left to count is how many seats the Tories will have left on July 5th.

Wouldn't it be great if they livened it up by really pushing labour on this? And maybe, just maybe, making them define single sex spaces?

I agree that’s why she wrote the article but I don’t think Kier Starmer will take the opportunity to change position because he apparently doesn’t like hearing women telling him he’s wrong - he’s very stubborn on the issue we call 'women’s rights' but he calls 'a toxic debate'.

Well Lord Tebbit saw exactly what would and has happened.

To add, my employer is SW’ed to the hilt to the point that our annual video learning module on human rights includes being told that these days ‘sex reassignment’ really just means ‘feelz’ and self declaration. No one is expected to go through actual surgery.

The lack of clarity and vagueness for this particular protected characteristic has absolutely allowed for SW’s preferential interpretation, which they’ve subsequently propagated and disseminated through their training modules.

To add, big thanks to JKR for making this issue centre stage and forcing Labour to accept that it’s not a niche topic. Still pisses me off that the reporting around it, including the BBC, constantly preface the issue being about ’trans’ when it’s about women’s rights and safeguarding.

Interesting that a Guardian article managed to centre the writing on women. Probably because it was written by a political correspondent and not the wearisome virtue signaller Zoe. Is JKR writing now in the midst of the election leading to political journalists writing and perhaps even thinking deeply about this issue for the first time?

I really hope so!

Sorry not read the full thread, but would like to add that it has been headlining on the news on Times Radio all day, and discussed in detail in at least two programmes.

The morning slot had the male presenter (don't know names) introducing the item by suggesting JKR was unreasonably aggressive against KS. His two guests, a man and a woman, both disagreed with him, basically saying that JKR had a point and discussed in detail why. Oh my god I felt such relief hearing that...people get it now.

I think KS will be rattled a bit today.

If there was a SDP candidate, I would consider them, but I'm lucky enough to have KJK for POW here, so that's where my vote is going.

I'm in a constituency that's currently Conservative but almost certainly going Labour.

From my basic knowledge of the candidates, the Conservative is someone I know vaguely, and he would be a decent representative for the local area, but I have no idea where he stands on any issues; the Labour candidate seems like a bland centrist who's saying as little as possible; and the Lib Dem is hatstand.

Luckily we've an SDP candidate. The SDP won't win many votes, and I don't agree with them on everything, but I think their heart is in the right place and I'd like to encourage them.

Yep, if you vote for the indie you might help him save his deposit, especially if there's a low turnout.

I am in a Lib Dem stronghold (MP and council). 4 or 5 of the Lib Dem councillors are standing in nearby(ish) constituencies.

I am fortunate to have an independent guy standing (who has been a councillor for a fair few years and seems to hold the council to account).

One of the first things he did was to state his support for womens' rights (I believe he has a teenage daughter).

The green guy is a nice enough bloke (DH used to work with him) and the conservative/reform/labour aren't local.

I've been offline all day. So much catching up to do! JKR is brilliant and I don't begrudge a penny of my Times subscription, which I originally only took out so that I'd be exposed to views from outside The Guardian. Ironic or what?

I'm in a Red Wall constituency that went Blue at the last election to "get Brexit done". The Tory MP, a local working class man, has been a decent MP, and is forthright about having no truck with gender ideology. My vote is his to lose. If you'd told me the morning after the last election that I'd ever say that, I'd have sent you off to wash your mouth out.

Here's a sensible summing up of what's happened in recent years, which I saw on twitter today.

'The reason this debate got so toxic was that people in power failed to consult women about changes to law and public policy that had a massive impact on them; failed to listen to women and women’s concerns when they raised them; failed to understand that women were being bullied and demonised for trying to raise their voices; instinctively sympathised with trans identified people’s hero’s journey narrative over against women’s needs and interests; and then blamed women for why everything got so toxic.'

That's from Jane Clare Jones.

This really has been a perfect example of how NOT to formulate & implement policy.

She's spot on there.