Heellp my 14 year old daughter says she wants to socially transition

[Pleasegotobed]

It is literally my worst nightmare.

She has a significant history of trauma as her dad is / was abusive. It’s been 3 years of hell. He is also a TRA and all over social media posting about resources for “queer children”.

she’s apparently been going to the lgbt club at school with her friendship group and now all of them have said they want to transition to using male names and pronouns. The teacher who runs the club has trans flags all over his wall. The head of year called me this morning to essentially ask for my consent to implement this at school. I raised my concerns about her history of exposure to dv (non mol in place), the social contagion aspect and that she’s also simultaneously self diagnosing herself as autistic and with adhd and is showing significant signs of anxiety.

What do I do and how do I handle this?

Can school and her dad consent to the social transition even if I say no? Her hoy seemed to have no idea what to do as I hadn’t consented and said he would speak to the head and DSL about where they would go from here. Which I assume means they may do it anyway?!

There were draft guidelines on Gender Questionibg Children issued to schools in December 23 that recommends educators should adopt a ‘cautious approach’ and should not 'proactively initiate action towards a child's social transition'. So my first step would be to ask what they are doing to implement those guidelines and what are they doing to determine if they have a social contagion event with so many girls who are friends stating their desire to transition at the same time.

This all sounds really difficult for you. I would suggest not shutting her down and being really negative about it, as she’ll likely see you as the enemy and will shut down and you’ll loose lines of communication. I’d say you don’t have much information about the topic (even if you do) and ask if she wouldn’t mind explaining some of it to you, so she feels in control and will talk - just listen. Then suggest doing some research together over the next month and write a big list of benefits (so she doesn’t think you’re being judgmental/ blocking her) and negatives. And then tell her once she’s had a month ‘cooling off’ and done the research you’ll concede to some of it, if she wants. Maybe a bit of time to think plus the negatives will put her off. If not, I’d allow changes to clothes and hair (easily reversible) and hope that in time she goes off the idea. If you don’t allow it she’ll likely just do it anyway without your consent. I’d keep reminding her that you love her whatever and she can be whatever she wants to be (eg sports activities / jobs / interests), regardless of gender. Given some of her other challenges I’d seek therapy too (with someone specialised in this area).

The school holidays are coming up. Try to get the school in a holding pattern until then. There doesn't need to be any sudden changes now

While I think a lot of sunnyday's 'explain it to me' plan sounds sensible, I disagree with making 'changes to clothes and hair' part of the discussion. That ties superficial appearance firmly to the gender box - which is entirely the wrong message.

At 14 she should have complete freedom over clothes and hair (within the bounds of school rules and general decency) and that should not be limited by her sex or gender.

Could you read When Kids Say They're Trans, by Sasha Ayad, Lisa Marchiano, and Stella O'Malley, who have 3 lifetimes of experience in working with gender-questioning children & their families.

Also, go through the back episodes of Sasha Ayad and Stella O'Malley's podcast, Gender: A Wider Lens, to see f there is advice via podcasts. Stephanie Winn's podcast, So you're Some Kind of Therapist, might also be helpful.

Be aware that social transition is not a neutral act, according to paediatric expert, Professor Hilary Cass, who led the Cass Review on care for children who think they're trans. And that you can say "No."

Here's a bit from When Kids Say They're Trans (it's quoted in an online review of the book):

“So, is your child trans? If you mean does your child have an innate, untestable, inner quality that requires him or her to undergo social or medical transition to survive and thrive, the answer, we believe, is no. On the other hand, your child’s gender-related distress is likely real and acutely felt"

I think that sounds like a rational and compassionate approach.

How difficult OP. The first challenge is the school massively overreaching - they are literally gaslighting children and enabling social contagion. That needs to be addressed to remind them of their legal responsibilities to safeguard children - not persuading them that they can change sex and that social transitioning is the first step.

The school are behaving appallingly and have no qualifications in sex change for children. But quite rightly, your first priority is your child.
There's a poster on here @BonfireLady who has successfully challenged her child's school for behaving in an equally unprofessional manner. Below is a link to her most recent thread as well as a link to the DfE draft guidelines which spell out the professional responsibilities schools have to safeguard children from adults persuading them they're the wrong sex.

Here's a link to the DfE draft guidelines:
https://consult.education.gov.uk/equalities-political-impartiality-anti-bullying-team/gender-questioning-children-proposed-guidance/supporting_documents/Gender%20Questioning%20Children%20%20nonstatutory%20guidance.pdf

BonfireLady's most recent thread.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5087175-starting-a-conversation-in-schools-this-pride-month

Maybe have a read of these and come back and ask questions? There's a wealth of expertise on this board.

Wtf is a teacher doing running a trans club in a school ,
Posters on his walls
Who in the school authorized that
I'd be challenging that for a start
School is for education,not indoctrination

It sounds as if it's possible this teacher has groomed these poor girls. It seems wildly unlikely that a group of girls all go to a club and then all suddenly find their real inner gender identity., all of them, at the same time.

Let's not forget it's meant to be a tiny proportion of the population who are genuinely gender questioning. From the sound of it these girls alone would be a huge overrepresentation in terms of their year group. I would be making this point to the school and asking about what has been said and done at the club and whether the SLT have oversight.

Have you spoken to the parents of the other girls? I know at secondary you don't always know parents well, but if you do, it may be worth finding out what they know about what's been going on at this club.

If they go with the non resident, abusive parent's 'consent' against the resident, non-abusive parent's consent that would also be a safeguarding failure. I would hope they're not idiotic enough to do this.

They need to do what's in your child's best interests in light of Cass and the government guidance, NOT what the teachers want to impose nor what your child says they want.

It's funny how when children want to transition so many teachers are all for it, despite Cass, but when children say they find school hard and don't want to attend, suddenly they don't want to just do whatever the child says.

Particularly if she has experienced trauma and a level of uncertainty what she needs more than anything else is real firm boundaries to help her feel safe and secure but she's going to push those boundaries and see where they break.

Just take a very simple and hard line, "No, you are a child. You can make those sorts of decisions when you are 18 and an adult".

I hold that line on everything that includes body modification including piercings, do I really give a fuck if my 14 year old decided to go and get her ears pierced, no I do not. But that hard line means there is no wriggle room. If she decides on her 18th birthday to go and get piercings and tattoos and anything else so be it but I see my job as getting her to adult hood in one piece, what she does from there is her call, it gives her a hard boundary which she likes deep down.

I agree with everything @dougalfromthemagicroundabout says.

I would follow up your meeting with an email to HOY and Head teacher and Governors and register a formal complaint, ask for the school’s safeguarding team to investigate the possibility of grooming at their LGTB club - A whole group of friends socially transitioning at the same time is extremely implausible.

Ask the school to consider suspending the club until the investigation is complete and the safety or otherwise of what is being discussed in this club is established.

I would also confirm you deny permission for the social transition of your dd and would pursue legal action if this was done over your head / by consent of abusive non-resident parent. Point out again that autistic traits are often masked as gender confusion, and your dd’s autism is highly relevant. Finally ask the school not to make you the “bad guy” and to ensure your dd is told her request for social transition needs careful evaluation by the school’s pastoral team.

The Safe Schools Alliance have some really good resources. This page in particular about the school complaints process may be helpful and it may be useful to bear in mind the school's policy on complaints in any communication you have with the school.

https://safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2021/04/16/how-to-complain-to-your-childs-school/

I'm sorry for what you, and your daughter are going through, OP. There's lots of good advice from knowledgeable and wise posters here, and I have nothing useful to add. But I feel for your daughter, I really do - I remember being so unhappy at that age, because I couldn't cope with being a girl, who was going to grow up to be a woman. It felt wrong and unliveable.

If 'transitioning' had been around when I was 14, I'd have leapt at it, and if somebody had offered me puberty blockers before I got my first period, I'd have bitten their arm off to get them.

Which is evidence of just how damaging the current climate is - I got over that crisis, time passed and time healed, I grew into being a woman, but a different kind of woman, gender non-conforming and gay. Nobody suggested to me that I must be in the wrong body, or that I was really a boy not a girl. It's such a toxic environment for young women like your daughter.

I know that 14-year-olds are strongly influenced by their peers, and whatever the 'in' thing is - being trans, in this case. But some 14-year-olds want to do their own thing, and stand out from the crowd - the school trans crowd in this case.

Today, the radical, rebellious thing to be as a 14-year-old girl is... a radical, rebellions 14-year-old girl.

Sending strength and courage to you both

A lot of good advice on this thread.

I would definitely be using the - it’s so close to the end of term I don’t think it’s appropriate in view of the Cass Review and Dept of Education guidance. For this very short period watchful waiting seems a far more appropriate course of action. Happy to discuss in September.

There's lots of good advice on here.

Hopefully the statutory KCSIE guidance that comes in from 1st September will help to focus the school on their safeguarding obligations. This guidance signposts schools to both the Cass Report and the Gender Questioning Children guidance and is the key document around which everything centres for schools.

Schools are in a really difficult position because they've been left without clear statutory guidance until this document was (pre)released. It's still not live yet, so remains at risk of change but hopefully not 🤞

Frustratingly, non of the other guidance is finalised, some is non-statutory, and there is no clarity on what will happen. However, if they start from the safeguarding principles of the forthcoming KCSIE guidance, the rest should fall in to place much more easily. I'm no expert on safeguarding (I'm just a parent who is trying to navigate this) but hopefully it should also be obvious to them that under their statutory safeguarding obligations, listening to the parent who is advocating for a Cass-aligned approach is much more appropriate.

OP, in terms of keeping the conversation open with your daughter, I took the "differential diagnosis" approach to working through my daughter's distress with her. She already had an autism diagnosis, but the same approach applies without it. If you've ever seen House with Hugh Laurie, this was the essence of how I did everything: I looked at the possible causes of her distress and started "treating" the most likely. As she is autistic, it was most likely that she didn't like her changing body, was reacting adversely to the change itself and had sensory issues (breast development and periods). She was also badly bullied because of how she reacts in social situations and told me she saw girls as "weak". She still wants to be really strong and has previously said that this was so that she could beat the bullies. In other words she was rejecting girlhood, which is a common theme regardless of the root cause. I'm not going to support her to do that but I can support her with some of the things she finds distressing about everything. I can also talk positively about fitness and strength using good female role models e.g. the Lionesses and Olympic athletes (she really loves playing and watching sport).

Using sports bras and getting her on the progesterone only pill have been a huge help. She did briefly use tape for her breasts (she still really hates them, but thankfully got fed up with the tape and accepted that it was very expensive compared to sports bras) but reluctantly accepted my terms that it had to be sports tape, not trans tape. I really didn't want her to tape her breasts at all and explained to her that my reluctance was because it represented moving away from being a girl - when she originally asked me, neither of us had heard of sports tape and she had found a trans tape product that she wanted me to buy for her. Keeping the status quo while she works through her distress has been my line the whole time e.g. when she was thinking about changing her pronouns I said she couldn't change anything until she had been on a journey of understanding herself better. Luckily we had access to an open-minded paediatrician who supported my approach to treat her distress as autism-related first. It was this paediatrician who helped us talk through the breast-taping issue when we reached an impasse on it. We covered the topic fully, including the physical risk side, with the help of his mediation. He was the one who suggested the sports type idea.
She's got short hair and uses a neutral sounding (nick)name at school. Many girls and women have short hair and neutral sounding nicknames. We did originally try and adopt her nickname at home but she eventually told us that we may as well go back to using the short version of her name (which sounds like a girls' name) because it was probably easiest. The interim Cass Report was out when all of this was going on and I did explain to her that it was an NHS report that made it clear that "social transition is not a neutral act" i.e. the NHS is recommending that we don't do it because it can lead to a fixed destination. She did accept this, albeit reluctantly, because we were still addressing the things that upset her most about her body.
In parallel we've been working on her mental health, partly through CAMHS and partly by ourselves. We've been focusing on getting her out and about, by gradually stretching the boundaries that result from her intense anxiety. At the height of her mental health crisis, she didn't leave the house and pretty much lived under a duvet for several months 😔

It's been and remains a really difficult conversation and I haven't always got it right. It's been so important bringing in other adults to support her, so that she's not just hearing it from me. Having the school onside has been a key part of this - securing this hasn't been easy and it's not always been obvious that it has been moving in the right direction. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to counter the information that your daughter's dad will be giving her but hopefully there is a way to keep her grounded and you can find people who can support you and your daughter 🤞🤞 💐

BonfireLady - an inspiring post, your daughter is lucky to have your wisdom and knowledge as well as your love. I hope the OP finds it very useful.
to all of you who are fighting for your daughters' wellbeing

Thank you all so much. @BonfireLady that was such a helpful post - even just hearing someone who is also on this “journey” is so reassuring. I find the topic quite triggering so it’s great to have such calming advice.

i feel so scared for her and honestly just totally lost. She has short hair and wears neutral- ish clothes. I don’t mind that at all - I don’t think her sex should define her appearance.

my biggest fear is that the school will do it anyway- he said “I don’t know what to do if one parent is happy to support and one isn’t” then he asked if we both had PR and if we had shared care.. he said that he was aware that it had been an “issue within a particular friendship group” for a while… he also said from talking to Dd that he anticipated that I wouldn’t agree. He hadn’t read the cass report and didn’t really seem to know what it was… I sent him a link and some other resources which he thanked me for and said he will speak to head and DSL and come back to me next week.

wtf do I do if he comes back and says they’re doing it anyway?! Can I stop it?! ..

I agree she needs an urgent camhs referral - she may refuse to engage though. She had one therapy appointment and the therapist said she was “powerfully struck” by her inability to access her own emotional experience. She really just does not want to discuss her feelings.

Thank you all again

Yes you can stop it. The school can't undermine your parental responsibility - you have prime responsibility to safeguard your child. This is a really useful article to read and share with teachers:

https://www.transgendertrend.com/teenager-says-theyre-transgender/:

Of course your daughter's wellbeing is your priority and well done for being so constructive in sharing resources with them. Others like me who have extensive experience in schools and with safeguarding are aghast at the professional arrogance and dangerousness of teachers embarking on their crusades to transition other people's children. The fact the teacher hasn't heard of Cass while dabbling in sex change for children (sorry for being blunt but that's what he's doing) is alarming.

Have you sent him the link to the DfE draft guidelines? If not, then suggest you send him them.

Keep focusing on her need for therapeutic support for your DD. That's what she needs - not the school pretending she's a boy. You're not against support for her - you're against them socially transitioning her. Cass has raised great concerns about schools doing this. The link above from Transgender Trend is written by a clinical psychologist and it's very powerful.
Maybe you could share it with her father? The fact she refuses to discuss her feelings is testament to the fact that she needs support, not socially transitioning.

There's lots of wise women on here who can offer support and Safe Schoos Alliance and Transgender Trend are great sources of advice.

You're not alone.

Thank you MarieDeGournay. The majority of my learning came from listening to the brilliant posters on this board. I spent a long time trying to get my head around the wider subject of gender identity, so that I could work out how to navigate conversations. I took part in all sorts of different online conversations to help with that.

@Pleasegotobed I'm glad it was helpful. One person who may be able to help you is your future MP, depending on their own views on this topic of course. Mine has been invaluable (as a lifelong Lib Dems voter, except when I once voted for Labour, I find myself in the curious position of hoping my Tory MP keeps his seat) and has been supportive of my wish to work collaboratively with the school to find a way forward. He has also been talking separately to the school. You may also get press interest (it can be done anonymously), being a parent who is caught in a position where you want to follow a Cass approach but your daughter's father wants to affirm. In parallel, keeping the school on track with the forthcoming KCSIE guidance is key, reminding them of its links to Cass.

I have no idea where this case got to but when I was in the early days of talking to the school, I made them aware of a group of parents who are challenging the legality of schools promoting genderist beliefs:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4867444-bad-law-project-to-sue-gov-over-sex-education
Even if this went nowhere, I have no doubt that there will be more of this kind of thing in the future, most likely directed at individual schools that continue to affirm, after the KCSIE guidance goes in place on 1st September.

I asked my daughters' school to speak to its lawyers about their own legal position regarding the promotion of gender identity belief, even with the current guidance (and I followed the question up as well via my MP). Worryingly, for schools, there is no clear legal position. Given that, I would think that most sensible schools would now start to exercise caution and follow the steer from Cass that social transition is not a neutral act.

It sounds like the person you're in contact with at the school is open to dialogue, which is a promising start. Personally, I have found a balance of collaboration, recognising that people hold different beliefs and.. strong nudging.. has worked well.

If one parent is for and one is against an intervention which has been described as 'not a neutral act' by an eminent paediatrician who published a wide-ranging, evidence-based review into the treatment of gender questioning children, and urged that social transition should not happen without medical input, then surely the precautionary approach is watchful waiting?

I cannot believe they would abandon safeguarding so far as to not be precautionary.

Are they essentially just, in this one area, doing what kids want? What if kids don't want to ever come to school? Are they going to accept that in the same way?

Did you note the number of girls who've all wanted to 'transition' at the same time, which suggests social contagion and / or grooming in the LGBTQ+ club. Did you ask if there was SLT oversight of what messages children have been getting in that club?

It sounds as if you're the resident parent, OP? If you are I do think they should give greater weight to your opinion as you will have a better understanding of your daughter's life and emotions than the non-resident parent.

It is appalling he is talking about socially transitioning children (against parental wishes) and hasn't read the Cass review. That is a huge failure in itself.

Following on from @BonfireLady 's excellent posts - I wonder if a question about the legal position if the school does not follow Cass might be the next level if they look inclined to ignore your concerns? You will be in a much stronger position as a result of the Cass review having been published. Any school going against Cass is ripe for legal action, I'd imagine. I doubt their lawyers would agree with the approach they're taking.

Also, if they have clusters of club attendees transitioning they really should be investigating what goes on in that club.

Yeah I’m the main parent. She is with her dad 4 nights per fortnight.

Ive emailed them today about the lgbt club - I said it’s an informal complaint but I won’t hesitate to take it further. Realised the definition of sex on their website is wrong too - it defines sex (in the glossary of terms in their dei policy) as gender identity!

do you think I should wait until they come back to me with what they’re going to do before contacting them again? I was going to say if they do it without my consent I will take legal action. It feels so rushed.

I'd give them a few days but use the time to decide how you want to handle this. Looking on the school's website is great - so there's the first issue for any complaint - they're already misrepresenting the law.
Copy the school's complaints procedure so you can see what you have to fo before launching a formal complaint.

Hopefully your email and links have got them backtracking.

It helps to be clear with schools precisely what do you want:

Do you want her out of the LGBT club?
Do you want a guarantee that nobody or a particular person? will discuss gender identity with her?
Do you want to make a formal complaint about the teacher's behaviour in the club? The lack of safeguarding? The club fostering social contagion? The school stepping way outside their professional boundaries?
Do you want them to refer her for mental health support?
Or something else?

That's a bit of a random list and you may have other issues to raise.

OP I'm in this situation with an adult child. The advice you've been given so far is good. I'd be wary of therapy as, if they're an affirming therapist, this could make it worse. Gender Exploratory Therapy Association and Thoughtful Therapists has been useful for us.

The school sounds completely toxic. Could you move her? Does she have hobbies or anything outside school that's non gender related she can focus on?

Talking to other parents through the Gender Dysphoria Support Network has helped to keep me sane. Bayswater Support is another parents group.

The fact the teacher hasn't heard of Cass while dabbling in sex change for children (sorry for being blunt but that's what he's doing) is alarming.

Absolutely. He is uninformed and out of his depth. If you haven't already I think you need to get his superiors involved - both head of year and head teacher.

I would ask them firstly to confirm that the SLT and the leader of the LGBTQ+ club have all read the Cass report. I would probably then just simply state that socially transitioning your child appears to be going against the Cass recommendations, which causes you grave safeguarding concerns.

Given that you have these concerns, ask them to set out clearly the evidence base and qualifications they have which are causing them to disregard Cass, and to lay out in writing why their proposed course of action (if not in line with Cass) is, in their opinion, in your child's best interests.

I suspect asking for all of the above in writing will prompt a hasty reading of Cass and reverse ferret. If not, at that point I think obtaining advice about the legality of their action may be appropriate.

I think all of the first bit (before you get to the legal questions) can be done in a spirit of constructive discussion about what is in the best interests of your child, without it necessarily being adversarial - although you must be raging, because I would be. However, as @BonfireLady has demonstrated although you shouldn't have to modify your tone when it comes to your child's safety, and they're the paid professionals here so should bloody act like it and have a tiny grasp of what Cass is, in reality sometimes squashing that and being the (only) grown up in the room can be a better approach for your child. It's not fair though, so rage away on here.