Lib Dem manifesto

[GoogleWhacking]

Has anyone seen it? They are pledging to recognise non binary identities in law and remove the need for medical reports for the GRA!

Definitely not voting for that!!

Yes, just flicked through some of it - all fluffy clouds, sunshine and blue sky, until you get to the section on Rights and Equality.

Ex Lib Dem voter here!

Reform the gender recognition process to remove the requirement for medical
reports, recognise non-binary identities in law, and remove the spousal veto

https://www.libdems.org.uk/manifesto

Realistically they are not going to be in government or in a coalition at this election.

I am no fan of allowing 16 and 17 year olds to vote, and I profoundly disagree with the quote that OldCrone has posted.

I also have an issue with their "long term goal" to change maternity leave to become "parental leave" with women losing the right to 52 weeks of maternity leave, and instead having to share that leave with the father/partner if the partner wants more than 6 weeks of paternity leave.

What does recognise non binary identities in law even mean?

I also have an issue with their "long term goal" to change maternity leave to become "parental leave" with women losing the right to 52 weeks of maternity leave, and instead having to share that leave with the father/partner if the partner wants more than 6 weeks of paternity leave.

You do know shared parental leave is already in place? I used it with my ex husband 13 years ago!

6 weeks paid paternity leave for dad's is a great idea.

If the father wants more than 6 weeks the mother has to give up her maternity leave for him - do you think thats a good idea?

Shared parental leave as is is fine. What shouldn't be brought in is the father being able to demand the leave, it should always be at the mother's discretion

Why am I not surprised? They’re Blechered to the eyeballs!

Ironically under 'rights and equality' they plan to remove the spousal veto from the GRA.

@BaronessEllarawrosaurus thanks for understanding my post and your helpful response clarifying.

Are Labour also planning to remove the spousal veto?

It's not a veto, it's an exit clause. Removal of the Spousal Exit Clause is a long term Liberal Democrat Policy.

Annelise Dodds has also said recently that it is Labour Policy.

I don't understand removing the 'spousal veto' - in any other legally binding contract one party couldn't just unilaterally change the terms.

And I can't see how it would work. Are they proposing that marriages could be deemed invalid without divorcing, where one party transistions and the other therefore doesn't want to stay married? If so what happens to joint assets? You can't just pretend the marriage never existed.

This is what they are pledging:

• In the longer term, when the public finances allow, our ambition is to give all families (including self-employed parents, adoptive parents and kinship carers):Six weeks of use-it-or-lose-it leave for each parent, paid at 90% of earnings.
• 46 weeks of parental leave to share between themselves as they choose, paid at double the current statutory rate.

Nowhere are they saying "men can demand it". In fact it looks like they are keeping the existing arrangement but upping the financial support .

I do wish people wouldn't just make things up.

For those who are new to the Spousal Exit clause this is a link to the evidence we have to the last GRA enquiry:

committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/16197/pdf/

"Realistically they are not going to be in government or in a coalition at this election. "

I'm not sure that Ed Davey has ruled out being in coalition with Labour. The lure of the ministerial perks will be too much for many.

Look how the Scottish Greens controlled a lot of SNP gender-thought across the border.

I have a Lib Dem council and MP. Whilst I have some generally lovely party members, there is a strange undercurrent of "no debate" and meanness that is hard the source of.

Thanks, that's really informative.

I just can't understand how anyone could argue for removal of the exit clause. Seems utterly cruel and one sided.

Perhaps a coalition is more possible than I'm currently thinking. Lots could change between now and July 4th, no doubt. At the moment though it seems likely that Labour will have a large majority.

Slight derail re parental leave.

We have 12 months maternity leave in this country because the evidence shows it benefits babies. 121 care in the first year by the mother is the optimal way of raising secure, well nourished, settled children (not to mention supporting breastfeeding - which the UK is very poor at).

The hijacking of maternity leave (and the crucial role it plays) by 'equality' and 'co-parenting' is shameful. Fathers have another 17 years to play a part in equal parenting. Motherhood is unique and maternity policy should recognise that.

TL:DR: Maternity leave is for BABIES not parents and certainly not dads.

(AND BTW I'm not shaming anyone by pointing out what the optimal way to raise babies is - I went back to work when DSes were 11 and 7 months respectively because of non-ideal circumstances)

Maternity leave is also vital to allow the mother to recover from physical labour and in many cases birth injury.
Given the terrible maternity care record currently in hospitals it’s even more worrying that specific leave that mothers should absolutely be entitled to is becoming shared by default.

Completely agree - I should have mentioned that. Well said PowerTulle

When men come out of the maternity ward with a fourth degree tear and double incontinence then we can rethink.

That is really awful. I am so so sad about what this party has become.

The maddest part of that is "recognise non-binary identities in law". Have they thought for even a moment how that might work in practice? Just some possible outcomes:

1. It would make gathering meaningful data on eg crime, education and health almost impossible
2. It would make any situation where ID was required (eg passport control) much more difficult to manage. Normally we can instantly see if the person in front of us is male or female - but how would we know if they were non-binary?
3. How would they manage situations that normally require single-sex spaces, such as changing rooms, prisons and hospital wards?

What is wrong with these people? Why are they so stupid?

It really annoys me when they say it's a spousal veto. They want to imply that it allows a bigotted spouse to stop their partner from getting a GRC. That's not what it is at all. It just delays the issuing of the full GRC so the spouse can end the marriage if they want to.

What the LibDems and Labour are proposing would force the spouse to accept the marriage being converted into a same sex marriage, without their consent.