Lib Dem manifesto

[GoogleWhacking]

Has anyone seen it? They are pledging to recognise non binary identities in law and remove the need for medical reports for the GRA!

Definitely not voting for that!!

That’s disgusting 😔. I can’t vote for any party which shows such contempt for women’s rights.

"Philosophically, I believe in the freedom of the individual to be who they want to be"

What about women who want to be in a women only space? Doesn't your philosophical freedom extend to us?

Ta-daa!

Thanks @ArabellaScott! Silly fool.

Bit harsh, I was only trying to help. 😂

""Philosophically, I believe in the freedom of the individual to be who they want to be"

If that was a pre-prepared answer in 2019, Davey and his team haven't really analysed that though much.

He talks as if it's an established well known freedom. But, it isn't and it can't be. People can't just be who they want to be. I can't be the president of the USA. I can't be a prize winning artist or an Olympic sprint champion. I can believe, or pretend to be those things. But I can't make anyone else agree with me and behave accordingly.

Perhaps he means, the freedom of an individual to express themselves how they want to express themselves. Which is a more realistic position, but of course one person's way of expressing themselves cannot override any one else's rights and personal freedoms. Surely he knows that?!

Philosophically, I believe in the freedom of the individual to be who they want to be

Unless what they want to be is not someone forced into a “same sex” marriage against their will.

Not only forced same gender marriages. Some gay men and lesbians will be forced into opposite gender marriages also.

How is this even possible though, surely someone will take legal action. You can't enter a contract and then change the terms without the agreement of the other party.

I find it thoroughly concerning that our electoral candidates don't have the intelligence to see the full impact of the bullshit that they spout to their natural conclusion. How on earth have we got to this.

I think the bit about wanting people to be able to define themselves and not let others define them is something that gets very mangled.

Scenario 1: Many socially liberal people are against people being pigeonholed by societal norms. With this in mind, we have GC people who can get behind the idea that your sex should not limit you in terms of stereotyped ideas about femininity and masculinity. Here, there is push back in relation to ideas that being in the male or female category should limit opportunity based on sex stereotypes.

Scenario 2: Then there are some batshit 'social liberals' that seem to suggest (I don't think they actually do believe) that sex categories are opt in/ out categories and any suggestion otherwise is committing the same problems as the above scenario highlights.

People like Ed Davie use the Scenario 1 rationale to make a case for or defend the Scenario 2 position and it infuriates me.

What remains unknown, is what part the different MPs are playing. Are they deliver avoiding thinking it through properly? Are they cowardly and not wanting to rock the boat? Are they fully aware of the manipulation but think the ends justify the means?

I simply don't believe that they don't understand the difference!

Bit harsh, I was only trying to help.

https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/05/28/why-is-german-youth-so-easily-seduced-by-afds-ideas

^"What I hear from young people repeatedly when I am at schools is this whole LGBTQ+ community, that you are no longer allowed to criticise things without being immediately labelled as a right-wing extremist."

"Or if you say a man in women's clothes is still a man, you immediately have to hear, 'Oh, you're just a Nazi,' which has become so commonplace in our society."

Some of these ideas seem to be resonating with a surprising number of people.^

So, no, they aren't talking about the libdems but they are talking about how they are held in contempt for not falling in line with faith-based truth claims generated by the progressivists.

They forgot free ice cream and a pony for every household.

The state of left and centre left politics is really upsetting. I'm seriously considering voting Conservative as a protest vote.

but of course one person's way of expressing themselves cannot override any one else's rights and personal freedoms. Surely he knows that?!

I think you have to be a Level 11 Liberal Democrat to acquire that sort of Knowledge. I guess he just wasn't there yet in 2019? But maybe...

Philosophically, I believe in the freedom of the individual to be who they want to be

So if I wanted to be a serial killer.......

It's like that saying "Be true to yourself".

What, even if yourself is a violent psychopath?

People can't just be who they want to be. I can't be the president of the USA. I can't be a prize winning artist or an Olympic sprint champion. I can believe, or pretend to be those things. But I can't make anyone else agree with me and behave accordingly.

Davey has a first-class degree in PPE from Oxford. I would have assumed that grappling with difficult philosophical and political ideas are a fundamental part of doing a PPE course. It beggars belief that Davey can't even grasp the simple distinction you make between being what you want to be and being free to express yourself in the way you want.

You can't just be what you want to be in the sense of having the state and wider society accept your own self-definition. You cannot just decide that you are black, or 15 years old, or have a disability, and expect the state to treat you accordingly.

I absolutely despair if this is the level of thinking from people who are supposed to be our brightest and best. I've come across 10 year olds who could do better.

"While I don't pretend to be an expert, I do find the different arguments and evidence that trans women are somehow a danger to other women totally unconvincing. Like all bad arguments, they take one or two rare incidents, and try to hang a full-blown thesis on them. These are not "legitimate concerns' and I don't believe we should engage with them."

That's part of the problem, right there.

Whether or not transwomen can be a danger to women isn't an "argument", a matter of belief. It's either true or it isn't. That's what he should engage with, not dismiss them as "not legitimate concerns".

The statistics strongly suggest that transwomen are more of a danger, especially if they still have male genitalia, in which case they are capable of raping us. The statistics of the rates of sex offending among trans prisoners show this. It's not just "one or two rare incidents".

Not all transwomen are rapists, of course, just as not all men are rapists. But all rapists are men or transwomen, and that's why we want safe spaces that keep them out.

The 'I find the argument that trans women are a danger unconvincing/bigoted/prejudiced' line is similar to the 'live and let live' line. Both show a lack of understanding of the objections being made.

Some people pull those lines knowing full well that this misrepresents the objections GC make. Some do this simply to obfuscate as they know that they will lose ground if people properly understand the objections. Some do it simply to enjoy the frustration and upset it causes GC women.

That's a concern of mine. I want a labour government but I'm worried enough about Annaliese Dodds & her ilk prevailing. We don't need women's rights to become a bond to throw at a coalition partner.

Yes!!! That’s exactly what happened before - in 2010 Cameron threw it as a sop to the Lib Dem’s and we got the transgender action plan https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a79d132ed915d6b1deb38f7/transgender-action-plan.pdf

i doubt the tories even gave it a second thought but it underpinned do much of the crap we’re having to unpick

This is so depressing. I looked for this thread to help me understand just how bad it is... and it's bad. I'd even flirted with the idea of voting LibDem as they're stronger on environmental issues than Labour and in my Tory stronghold might be the best bet to remove the Tory MP. I was doorstepped by my very personable LibDem candidate the other day, told him why I'd left the party and couldn't vote for them, asked his views, he said 'if you have testicles and a penis you're a man, even if you've altered your body with surgery'. They're not all loons. It's such a shame their manifesto team are...

What would that candidate do if he became an MP and was whipped to vote with the party line on gender issues?

Labour MSPs were whipped to vote in favour of the SNP/Greens' batshit gender legislation, remember.

What about the ones who have had their male parts removed? They are still men.