Lib Dem manifesto

[GoogleWhacking]

Has anyone seen it? They are pledging to recognise non binary identities in law and remove the need for medical reports for the GRA!

Definitely not voting for that!!

The GRC and "nonbinary" stuff is truly dreadful and in normal times I would not consider voting for a party with this crap. But in the place I vote the only chance of ousting the Tory is by voting LD so I will hold my nose and do it.

And now, everyone act surprised that the right is on the march while the left persist in testing the public by pursuing allegiance to more and more fantastical truth claims. These fuckers might end up being the "opposition" to the Labour party.

Eh? I think the polling shows the opposite of "the right being on the march". Unless you mean literally more far right marches. That does appear to be a thing.

Don't use their language. It's not a "spousal veto". It's a requirement that you have to get your divorce/annulment sorted first if you want to change your identity and your spouse doesn't want to be married to your new identity. By "removing the spousal veto" they mean "force people into a marital status they never consented to"

Yes, @CassieMaddox as in some polls are suggesting that 1 in 5 people are considering voting for reform, meanwhile, we've just seen Europe deliver more right and far right MEPs to the European parliament. Macron has just dissolved parliament after the success seen by Le Pen.

More far right marches are in the mix and young Germans are seeing more appeal in ADF.

No in Europe in the elections there was a big swing to the right, Macron has called a snap election, and the Belgian PM has resigned. So yes in Europe the march to the right is on.

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Oh. As this is a thread about UK elections I thought you were talking about that

I'm talking about how the politics of the left need to hustle to reflect the concerns of the electorate and not allow such open goals to the right by being demonstrably foolish and untruthful.

This is a country that isn't sold on the left, it's just what's left over when you don't want the Tories. They have one term not to blow it but if they push through these anti-common sense policies with the approval of the nodding opposition, then the fragile trust capital will break entirely.

It's absurd, isn't i?. They've said that they want to recognise in law that some people like to pretend that they don't have a sex. Why? What is the point of recognising in law something which is just make-believe?

I can't see a way to have 'non binary' recognition that wouldn't render every space mixed sex.

If sex is being recorded as 'non binary' this reflects a redefining of sex. If sex is defined as being an identity, I think it'll be difficult to uphold GDPR rulings about only collecting data that is required. I can't think of a single situation in which one's identity relating to sex would be needed and therefore it'll not be GDPR compliant to ask for data about 'sec' if framed like this.

In relation to people being denied the opportunity to divorce in advance of someone refining their legal sex, it's absurd and hugely oppressive.

To coincide with a phrase, the Lib Dems are 'on glue' if they think the electorate supports their positioning. The best they can hope for is people not bothering to understand what they are saying/proposing.

This is the full section on 'rights and equality':

'We will:

• Champion the Human Rights Act and resist any attempts to weaken or repeal it.
• Develop and implement a comprehensive Race Equality Strategy to address deep inequalities, including in education, health, criminal justice and the economy.
• Make misogyny a hate crime and give police and prosecutors the resources and training they need to prevent and prosecute all hate crimes while supporting survivors.
• Give everyone a new right to flexible working and every disabled person the right to work from home if they want to, unless there are significant business reasons why it is not possible.
• Respect and defend the rights of people of all sexual orientations and gender identities, including trans and non-binary people.
• Ban all forms of conversion therapies and practices.
• Scrap the Conservatives’ draconian anti-protest laws, restoring pre-existing protections for both peaceful assembly and public safety, and immediately halt the use of live facial recognition surveillance by the police and private companies.'

My bold for parts relevant to this board.

• Make misogyny a hate crime and give police and prosecutors the resources and training they need to prevent and prosecute all hate crimes while supporting survivors.

How goes one make misogyny a hate crime whilst simultaneously agreeing men are women if they say so?

I do hope that some journos with a backbone get Ed Davey in for a proper interview about this stuff. So far all we've really had is "look what a fun and caring chap he is".

Better still a live chat on Mumsnet!

We'd all end up getting banned.

I’m sure AfD voters spoke of nothing else other than LibDem gender recognition policy over the last few weeks.

Didn't these guys get the memo? Its not 2015 any more so why they think this communiqué from planet Zog is going to fly, fuck knows.

I'm pretty sure there was a MN live chat with Davey at some point. I seem to remember he was a pompous arse.

Ta-daa!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/mumsnet_live_events/3614469-Webchat-with-Ed-Davey-Lib-Dem-leadership-candidate-on-Tuesday-18-June-at-1-30pm

His comment then:

'I support the proposed reform of the Gender Recognition Act to allow self-certification - both for philosophical reasons and for practical reasons.

Philosophically, I believe in the freedom of the individual to be who they want to be - and not to be told who they are by society. When society dictates to individuals, unhappiness and discrimination are not far behind. So for me, a trans woman is a woman, and a trans man is a man. For me, that's not a policy position, it's their reality and I respect it.

Practically, I'm alarmed at the amount of discrimination against trans people. The bullying and the violence faced by trans people should concern everyone, not least because the suicide rate amongst trans people is significantly higher than the general population. And as someone who believes everyone is equal and everyone deserves equal respect, I strongly believe we must tackle such discrimination - just as we still must do more to win full equality for the wider LGBT+ community, for women, ethnic minorities, the disabled and other groups who can face discrimination.

Lets face it women continue to suffer discrimination - dismissal due to pregnancy, low conviction rates of rape, period poverty, forced marriage, FGM. Surely we need to unite not divide in the face of inequality?

While I don't pretend to be an expert, I do find the different arguments and evidence that trans women are somehow a danger to other women totally unconvincing. Like all bad arguments, they take one or two rare incidents, and try to hang a full-blown thesis on them. These are not "legitimate concerns' and I don't believe we should engage with them.

So while I know my views will not find favour with everyone on Mumsnet, that's what they are. I've had this debate at length with a number of people on both sides and I realise feelings run high. Yet I'm 100% clear of my position.'

Also:

'I did smoke some cannabis as a student but that's it. And I'm enjoying a fig roll now.'

And:

'Thanks for all your replies to my answer on rights for trans people. I can see most of you disagree with me, but I've never been afraid of taking a principled position, even if it's unpopular. I joined the Liberal Democrats in 1999 when we were 4% in the opinion polls. It wasn't a career move. It was a decision based on my liberal beliefs and from moving the amendment to abolish the vile, homophobic section 28 to securing the release of my constituent from Guantanamo Bay, I've stuck to my principles. So I'm sorry we can't agree on this.

That webchat was 2019, btw.

Fuck knows. I expect Labour's to be as batshit also.