Managers comment to me at work

[HandAndFootInMouth]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but here goes.

I work with a couple of teens who identify as the opposite sex. One is a bit laid back about it all, but the other seems to take it very seriously. The second identifies as a boy and wants to be called he/ they. I’ve already been told by them that they dislike certain people because they misgender them. I’m struggling because I work closely with this person and I’m slipping up when caught off guard. I try to refer to them by their name, but often come out with she and her if I’m not concentrating.

I’ve worked with others identifying as the opposite sex but found it easier not to slip up, as they presented themselves in the opposite way whereas this person is not actually doing that. Basically she looks like a girl, and wants me to use he. I’m not doing it deliberately. I think I’m on course for a bollocking. Also, they identify as he, but use ladies toilets.

My issue is that I was talking to my manager and he said to me, “the problem is, your generation grew up in different times, and you never saw all this, so it’s hard for you to accept”. I felt really annoyed by this because it was like when you hear people saying older people are racist because they didn’t grow up around other cultures, they can’t help their ignorance.

That’s how it feels. I’m a middle age woman, I can’t help my ignorance over non binary etc.

I’d love a come back to my manager.

I try to keep my views out of work. I’m not paid to bring in my opinions. But, bloody hell, I’m walking on eggshells here.

It's nothing to do with growing up in different times, it's the problem with being required to constantly over-rule the evidence of your own eyes.

Yes. I’d like to be able to say something to him like, it’s not ignorance to agree with science.

Challenge him on his ageism, next time. That's a hate crime.

Your manager is being ageist. I would look up your company's HR policy and see if there is anything about discrimination based on age.

“Yes, my generation did indeed study biology”.

Out of interest OP, what age are you?

50

Not sure what mirror my managers looking in, because he’s around my age.

This may not help with your manager, as the situation is different and obviously yours is a more formal setting but, when my son said to me that I had grown up before there were non-binary people so hadn’t had to deal with it, my response was that of course there were non-binary people when I was growing up but we had a different word for them. When he asked what that was, I said we called them “normal”, because it was perfectly normal to want to push back against stereotypes, which aren’t healthy for anyone.

Our conversation then went on to discuss how harmful stereotypes are, and how enforcing gender ideology is based on an assumption that most people fit the stereotypes. And it then regresses society back to restricting people because of assumptions about who likes what rather than enabling everyone to be their true selves, whatever their sex. And it is the enforcement of stereotypes that encourages some people to identify (as non-binary or trans) to get away from those stereotypes, but at the same time the existence of stereotypes is necessary for them to say what they are getting away from, and that’s when it moves from being something that is about an individual’s identity to being something that is imposed on the rest of society.

Anyway, wiser minds will be along soon. I’m sorry you are dealing with this.

Why, if identifying as he, are they using female toilets? It's so confusing.

Indeed several wiser minds came along while I was typing my essay. 🙃

Just identify as non binary yourself and get your manager (and the teen) to start jumping through a few hoops under your gimlet eye.

It's a mind field. Call ur boss out on preconceptions about u. U simply forget. Not unreasonable to do this if evidence is contradictory to what u are being asked to say

Love this, Grace Jones, bowie... Prince just offcthdctop off my head.

Well, your acceptance of reality belief in the biological reality you can see is just as protected as your colleague’s gender bollocks.

Your manager’s bullshit, as PP’s have pointed out, may well be considered age discrimination.

If you’re not ‘misgendering’ deliberately then there’s nothing HR can hold against you. At least not lawfully.

http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/java/ready.html

Get him to do the test above then relate it to the problem you are having. He will then understand a bit more. Its really difficult when your brain processes one thing but you have to say another.

That is the issue. I’m being told to call them one thing, but my brain sees another.

Which is perfectly normal. You are trying to be respectful but it’s hard.

I once had a colleague change their name from something very common, think like Jane Smith to something like Sunshine Sparkle. We all messed up regularly as your brain knows them as Jane.

Your manager, is however being ageist and discriminatory.

I would use a lot of what a pp has suggested when you talk to your manager but make the point his comments about age are discriminatory.

Have you tried using they and them? although personally, I find those just as difficult.

Because, as we keep saying, toilets are separated by sex not gender.

And of course because a female wouldn't be safe in male toilets.

Our CEO was proselytising about flying the pride progress flag and all I could think was how regressive it has turned out to be. Womans' rights, gender stereotypes, gay rights to assert same sex attraction....we're going backwards not forwards.

because he’s around my age.

Men don’t see themselves as the same age as women their age, they see themselves as the same age as women 12-15 years younger. I said “our generation” once to a male colleague who’s within 5 years of my age and he looked appalled and disgusted. I learned I needed to be really careful about that in future, particularly with anyone senior to me.

Suggest young lady who IDs as a boy use the men's loos. This seems reasonable if she/he wants to be treated as male. Point this out to your manager.

Why? I don't treat men of my generation as if they are younger than me. That would be silly. If they are appalled to be old that's their problem and they should grow up.

History is like that. Progress is not in one upward curve.

I heard a clip from Orwell's 1984 today in the car and couldn't believe how relevant it was to today. Are any of you English teachers? Would you choose that book for your class to study?

Age discrimination - draw his attention to this;
Saying ‘back in your day’ to an older colleague could amount to ‘unwanted conduct’ an employment judge has written in a tribunal decision.

https://www.personneltoday.com/hr/back-in-your-day-age-discrimination/

If a male identifying as she, uses female toilets though?