Tommy Robinson and Let Women Speak

[eatfigs]

I've only read about this on Twitter so there's a chance this is being taken out of context, but it looks like Let Women Speak were part of Tommy Robinson's rally in London this past weekend:

https://x.com/shularises/status/1797585248580186511

https://x.com/GappyTales/status/1797611080212205988

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1796931835823362392

This doesn't sit right with me at all. I've been to LWS events and thought I knew what they were about. I've argued against the guilt-by-association tactics that some activists use against LWS when male intruders have turned up to the events, like the neo-Nazis in Melbourne.

But here we see the opposite, LWS deliberately attending far-right fascist marches. This seems inexcusable to me.

I think I said that in my comment with the tweet

Aja was wearing the yellow striped black Fred Perry associated with the Proud Boys when she was at the Tommy Robinson rally.

The figures are wrong here. In 2016 - Brexit vote - 1 Million Britons were living in continental Europe, but 3 Million had emigrated to Britain from continental Europe.

Racist abusers like to blame others for their actions. "She made me do it".

I tend not to listen to far right justifications for their racist beliefs and values. I see it as similar to validating other kinds of abusive men. It only encourages them to continue with their abuse.

😂
You are really keen to shut me up aren't you?

I tend not to listen to far right justifications for their racist beliefs and values

Then how can you ever hope to understand where someone is coming from, their reasons for thinking that way, how they came to those conclusions and what you might do in the future to help them come to a different conclusion.

It's not validating to listen to someone's justifications for why they did something. It would be validating if at the end of a long diatribe of crap you said "yeah totally get where you're coming from, bye now"

Seriously how the fuck did we get to the point where people won't listen, or read about things they find distasteful because it doesn't fit in with their way of thinking?

The world is going backwards. It's absurd.

I'm going to say again for clarity.

My issue with the leaflets is they use rainbow branding and talk about "the cult".

The average person will interpret that as being about homosexuals, not trans people.

If the leaflets genuinely intend to safeguard gender questioning children and appropriate RHSE then they would be more effective if they weren't appearing to be aimed at homosexuals.

And also if they weren't being distributed at a rally for a movement that attracts homophobic violent men.

The fact you can't see the issue is the same as the fact you can't see the issue with GC feminists marching for TR.

I'm just going to stick my oar in and point out that there is a political faction who want us to disassociate from our own past.
Its not a sensible position. We look at events from 14 years ago because we can trace a path to events of today.

No, she tweeted criticism of those who criticise populism. She didn’t tweet support for populism, that’s your inference. You have put words in her mouth. Another inference might be she’s more prepared to listen and understand where supporters of populism are coming from and not dismiss their views like others do, people like you.

You think populism is bad. That’s fine. But my inference is that KJK understands that telling everyone who thinks populism is good they are bad people is not a good move.

There's also, metaphorically, how can you spike their guns if you don't know what weapons they're using?

Do you think what Gordon Brown did 14 years ago is a reasonable justification for feminists to go on Tommy Robinson marches today?

Otherwise it is irrelevant to the thread and a derail.

This whole mess just confirms for me how doomed feminist movements are when so many women are still apparently looking for the paternalist protection of a male-led group. It’s like when a girl escapes from an abusive birth family into an abusive marriage. The whole “the left wing men were arseholes to me so harrumph I’m going to join the tribe of the right wing men” is mad - to see women actually making that argument out loud without seeing the flaw. We live in a rare age and society where women can be financially independent, politically organise and hold positions of power, and still everything degenerates into male, tribalist, protection rackets.

It depends what Gordon Brown was wearing. Was it Fred Perry?

This is slippery on your part.
Gordon Brown's interaction with Gillian Duffy is not a justifaction for feminists to go on a Tommy Robinson march.
But the much discussed reaction to that event, and the ethics around it, are relevant to this discussion.

I've said it before; we are being driven in to factions. The Labour Party corner also demands we give up women's rights and safeguarding, and give unconditional support for Gaza..

I'm being told I am a bad person for not caring enough about austerity or the NHS to vote Labour. I do care about those things; I also care about women's rights and safeguarding.

Its not me that has changed my values, its activists within the Labour Party who have moved the goalposts.

This does not mean I will vote Conservative, or support Tommy Robinson.

As she doesn't listen to their justifications on her own admission this claim

Racist abusers like to blame others for their actions. "She made me do it".

Is entirely invented by her.

Rather, I've ( and many others) actually been very eager to hear of your explanations , your understandings, and your definitions: the actual ideas behind your thinking and of those ideas that you have issue with......but you just cannot seem to deliver.

The Proud Boys wear black Fred Perry shirts, ergo, anyone in Britain wearing one must be a fanatical Trumpite.

OK, fantastic logic, I concede. She's a massive racist.

Your refusal to listen or attempt to understand is what makes you so utterly ineffective in discusion and debate. If you don't understand ideas and principles, all you are left with is prejudice and emotion.

Ignorance, wilful deafness and blind tribalism makes you a part of the problem( not the solution) you so vehemently oppose.

Did we get an update on;

1. The list of everything corrupted by Aja and Lippy
2. The bigoted thing said by ex Labour member Gillian Duffy?

Thanks

Yes, I'm sure it's just a coincidence she wore a very specific item of clothing (black with yellow stripes FP polo top) associated with the far-right to a far-right rally.

I'm sure Fr. Austin Purcell was modelled on someone posting on this thread.

Oh no!😱left wing to the left, etc.

In the same way, if stalwart working class feminists like Aja And Lippy are going to a TR march, leftist feminists should be saying "Bloody hell these are the very sort of women we're supposed to exist to help. What are we doing so wrong that they might be drifting towards thinking they have more in common with TR than with us?", instead of saying "SHUN THE WITCHES".

Thank you @TinselAngel I was trying to word something like this on Twix this morning, but ran out of time as I had to go to work.

Those prognosticating doom and gloom on this thread, and threatening a return to the 30s, how can you predict which sides are good and bad here? If recent years have taught me anything, it’s that our views of everything might have been manipulated and there may well be nuance I’ve missed or even outright lies.

It’s very difficult to keep an open mind about everything, but I’ve become much more cautious about condemning others who appear to be communing with individuals who have been condemned as persona non grata. Quite apart from anything else, and reflecting what Tinsel said above, if we look at what Aja is doing and condemn without even trying to understand why, then we’re no better than those supporting transactivism without once opening their minds and actually listening to women.

Hepwo · Today 12:15

The bigoted thing said by ex Labour member Gillian Duffy?

She complained about Polish people coming over here to work.