Tommy Robinson and Let Women Speak

[eatfigs]

I've only read about this on Twitter so there's a chance this is being taken out of context, but it looks like Let Women Speak were part of Tommy Robinson's rally in London this past weekend:

https://x.com/shularises/status/1797585248580186511

https://x.com/GappyTales/status/1797611080212205988

https://x.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1796931835823362392

This doesn't sit right with me at all. I've been to LWS events and thought I knew what they were about. I've argued against the guilt-by-association tactics that some activists use against LWS when male intruders have turned up to the events, like the neo-Nazis in Melbourne.

But here we see the opposite, LWS deliberately attending far-right fascist marches. This seems inexcusable to me.

Seriously. You want metrics to demonstrate why Tommy Robinson is more "unreasonable" than any member of the public?

Don't be ridiculous.

Right @Hepwo , it doesn't occur to you that there might be more going on than that? Like I said, I'll come back to this thread in a few months and I'll remind you all

The thing I’ve noticed about SM is the more you follow or talk about something the bigger it gets.

This thread though has dipped into some online targeting of one woman which is not good.

I thought people listened to insightful podcasts on SM behaviour. This targeting is part of a problem, not the way to resolve anything

Here's the dictionary definition of "prejudice":

preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.

Here is the definition of "bigotry":
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

I hate Tommy Robinson because he is a proven misogynistic, racist far right thug who goes around stirring up trouble to recruit people to his racist, misogynist far right cause.

This is based on reason I.e. analysis of his past, his convictions and what he says and does.

Therefore my hatred of him is neither prejudiced or bigoted.

Am I going to feel shamed that you think I shouldn't hate anyone, even far right racist misogynists? Nope.

Agreed. The acrobatics some posters perform so they can disagree - even if it means putting themselves on the same level as a racist, misogynist thug - is astonishing.

And they call themselves feminists, apparently. (I think.)

OK 👍
Do you think WW2 happened because the meanie lefties didn't listen to Hitler so he had no choice?

lol @CassieMaddox

The discussion on the spectrum of politics could be interesting but it doesn’t need to involve targeting of one woman online

Do you think WW2 happened because the meanie lefties didn't listen to Hitler so he had no choice?

Hiter's rise to power was made possible by the punitive and humiliating Treaty of Versailles, as well as the poor global economic conditions from 2029. It's a cautionary tale and similar was deliberately avoided post second world war.

Yes good idea. Now that there is no longer denial that certain people attended TR rally, we are finally free to discuss why this is problematic.
For me, it’s really bad strategy because most ordinary people associate trans as a form of being gay and so they presume everyone who has an issue with it are far right reactionaries. This is why it’s important to highlight the differences between the two groups (Gc and far right); it’s not the same issue and that many inclusive and tolerant people take issue with trans ideology

Do you think the millions more deaths than even the Nazis committed, at the hands of the Russian communists of their own people, was becuase the good leftists got rid of the bad people?

You don't seem to understand the points people are making. It's quite a sight to see. You represent what is dangerous about the left (not all the left are damgerous).

You are very simplistic: We are Good, Bad people must not be tolerated.

That historically doesn't go well.

I've never seen any evidence, over years of your posting, that you even know what any of the people you say are fascists think or say. Other than sound bites that often don't mean what you seem to think they mean.

You always refuse to engage with the content because "eww".

I don't think you have two clues why you really disagree with these people or the nature of their claims. What that means is you don't really disagree with their ideas at all - you can't disagree with something when you don't know what the idea you are disagreeing says.

You just repudiate them because you have a conviction they are unclean.

That's not morally superior. It's weak, frankly, and less than useless.

So far a couple of people have been named on this thread. It’s not really representative of any group or movement. It’s this spotlight which is a bit misleading.

It does occur to me that there's more going on.

The first few meetings I went to about the GRA consultation me revealed a sub culture of this in an out group warfare going on.

There was the formal agenda of speakers and presenting but also going on was a lot of in and out group formation. It was really visible especially as I'm a smoker and used to just chatting with anyone else smoking. The conversations weren't about what we had just heard but about in and out group gossip. Little knots of women would glower at other women. The transgressions causing the glowering were usually a mystery but this all seemed to be enjoyed by many.

Ever since that I've watched the factions smear each other here and on X etc.

I find it quite comical actually. So this whole "she was in the pub talking about us, we are destroyed now" is just more of the same sub culture of in and out groups.

I withdrew from participating with any formal and informal groups after a while because this way of operating might feed a need in people for status or validation, I don't really know, but it's not adding any value at all. I did stuff alone as I was able to.

I suppose it's human nature this sharp elbow competition, and left wing people are as competitive as right wing people so you can't avoid it unless you set your own goals that aren't dependent on group validation. I think this is something Maya Forstater excels at individually.

I will continue to be amused by it when it gets dragged into this board, a place where wonderful things have been done but recently it's been weighted towards in and out group gossip whilst real work has taken on a real world unstoppable presence.

I feel a bit sorry for those who inadvertently trap themselves into that to be honest, but I'm not going to apologise for also having a laugh at it. Best way really.

I'm a bit confused now.

KJK has been criticised for working with right wing conservatives.

Some feminists think that this shows impurity and that GC people should not work with right wing conservatives.

Some speakers decided to pull out of the Countess conference because of the participation of right wing conservative Jana Lunden.

In a thread on here about the conference it says that speakers who refused to share a platform with Lunden included Gearóid Ó Loingsigh, Annaig Birdy, Aja, Rhona Hotchkiss, Jon Pike & Stella O'Malley.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5039729-the-countess-conference-resisting-ideology-27-april-2024-dublin

Aja is not the only person who dropped out, and not even the highest profile one, but she is now being blamed on this thread for 'destroying' the conference.

Contrary to the usual complaints about KJK working with right wing conservatives, those who are blaming Aja for 'destroying' the conference are now suggesting that Aja (and presumably the other speakers who dropped out) should have done the same as KJK and shared a platform with a right wing conservative.

Can anyone make any sense of this?

Tommy Robinson is a racist. This is a fact. It is provable. Has been repeatedly proven.
He is violent against women. Women who GCs claim they are protecting.
This isn't about ideological purity. It literally makes no sense.

Exactly.

99.999% of people have no idea who these two women are, it doesn't affect their view of KJK, LWS, or anything else in any way.

The vast majority of people aren't even on Twitter fcs.

This thread has probably made thousands more aware of the whole thing, bit of an own goal it seems.

Oh come on. He’s obviously a big believer in women’s rights. It’s almost a full 3 weeks since he was tweeting about dried up feminists who should get married, and have children like nature intended. He’s probably totally rethought his position since then.

I still don’t know who they are nor care really

But it is incredible to see how invested people are in X

This is a perfect example of my previous post. The actual incident, ie a photo of a leaflet at a two tier police rally in London held by a brown lesbian who has also been to LWS meet ups, is infinitesimally tiny.

X over the past few days was dominated by the only fans woman who assaulted a politician and the leaders debate.

The only people actually talking about this miniscule fragment are the in group of women that viscerally hate KJK.

I think that's what's so fascinating, the level of impotent rage this particular in group now operates at. Brighton hothouse stuff no one really cares about other than themselves. They are the same type of people as Russell Lloyd Mole really. Like angry wasps.

You have utterly missed the point.

Apologies! I was getting the AI to write gerbil fan fiction.

It seems according to AI two heads are Better than one! I think it's having some sort of nervous breakdown today it's images have been...odd!

I would prefer if this thread isn’t derailed by silly images

Blimey.

Whist I appreciate what many women have done to shine the sunlight on this issue, I'm so glad that I play my part close to home. I write various letters, donate where I can and tell anyone I know about the issues this ideology is causing.

I think I'd find the infighting and finger pointing too exhausting to get involved with meetings etc.