Sunak: I’ll change the Equality Act to protect women’s spaces

[Binglebong]

Sorry to dump and run but this needed sharing.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/06/02/rishi-suank-equality-act-protect-womens-spaces-tory/

They're here: https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Action-guide.pdf

Not sure using the short link thing worked, so this will now be mangled. Sorry!

Does anyone know if this is a standard LD response to the questions?
I'd be amazed if that was an approved LD response. It sounds like an honest person who's not up to speed with the issues rather than someone "on message".

Good response! If only that were a standard LD response!

It is very close in wording at the start to what I received over a few emails from my MP 2-3 years ago. It is remarkably similar in tone just updated to reflect current events.

I wouldn’t be surprised if it was based from a template.

Assigned at birth referred to though. And still a bit too wishy washy / implication that transwomen should be allowed in single sex spaces!

Not as gung ho as I'd expected. But also not able to vote for them. I think she's trying to be all things to all people, sadly.

It really does look in style like my LD MP. She did all the same placating while stating clearly 'I believe we can find solutions without excluding transwomen'. All the same 'I hear you... but'.

And the same lack of understanding that there have been cases around the world or in the UK. Mine expressed doubt about Clare Dimyon's case in Brighton but expressed sympathy if it did. It really was 'I hear you' using the same phraseology that I see in your candidate's letter.

But hey... it is not like the Green's candidate who told a women to go and vote for someone else that I saw on twitter.

Bloody hell. At least they're honest in saying they don't want her vote!

I bet they do have a PR team either writing or checking what's written. LD 'house style' to be conformed to.

Sorry didn't mark the original post about LD response, but even if it turns out to be an agreed standard response, it shows they have made some effort to understand the issues.

And politically a good holding position as it puts them being "understanding" of two different sides.

Is it possible to name the LD MPs who responded - just in case it is the same MP on each occasion!

But dont want anyone to break confidences or what ever.

Mine is a prospective LD MP, Southport. We used to be LD here but we're Tory now.

Sorry to quote myself but to put in context this comment.

Have now begun to feel that even groups that are fundamentally about women's sex based rights, are putting Labour affiliations / anti Tory postuting first.

Noticeable on WPUK facebook page by posting an article by Kathleen Stock (who I think is a historian?) with has the usual trite nonsense about Richie Sunak has had 14 years to fix this. RS wasn't PM 14 years ago, and as on ealier posts on this thread, not all of us, let alone MPs were that fullly aware of how the GRA had undermined the EA in relation to women.

And maybe worse still, none of these groups have question Starmer just saying its non issue. And these are groups actively campaigning for WSBR.

Seems like tribalism is just as much an enemy for women being listened to as having MPs and public institutions Stonewalled.

I do actually find it somehow easier to deal with old-fashioned sexism cos I’ve been dealing with that all my life. It’s the horror of hearing men on the Left, who are politically sound on so many other issues affecting society, coming out with casual sexism and realising that they won’t admit to it because they consider themselves as politically virtuous.

I've actually felt more respected and taken seriously, overall, when discussing feminism or women's rights, or politics in general, with men who are more conservative (big or small C). I'm aware it's maybe more of an old-fashioned respect that doesn't necessarily mean they see me as an equal, but they have been more willing to listen and debate honestly. They seem less panicked or quick to shut me down when they realise I might have a point, or that I'm informed and know what I'm talking about.

It makes me wonder how much this plays into the fact that the Tories have had female leaders and Labour hasn't. Of course, that doesn't mean they have better policies for women, but it's interesting. I can imagine how fucking frustrating being a female labour MP must be, especially if you're a feminist.

I've often found conservative men more respectful. I don't think they are any more likely to see women as "below" the, the people like that are just narcissistic dicks and those people exist across the board.

Plenty of conservative men see women as equals. They also typically think there are some differences between men and women that will affect how society functions and how we should treat - for example - mothers. In my experience conservatives in general are much more likely to see mothers and caring roles as serious and valuable and important to society. They also are more likely to emphasize duties men have to their wives and kids.

Progressive men, even if they are perfectly nice, seem to think that fundamentally, women and men are interchangeable economic units. You even see that on the far left in places where there are communist systems, women's reproductive roles are treated as a kind of inconvenience to be overcome so they can work.

Coming back to this comment, I was speaking with friends who teach senior school and heard that all new schools will have them and many schools have already converted to them. Moreover, they all said that they love these toilets. No more smoking. All highly visible to authorities. No more groups congregating. So much easier to police. Plus, hey it’s supportive for everyone.

When I challenged them on safety and on dignity for girls with flooding or needing to borrow a tampax, girls not wanting to be heard in the toilet by the boy next door etc, they all seemed surprised. As if they had not thought about these issues. And these were female teachers. Everyone only seeing the issue from their perspective.

"There are clearly issues that females (assigned at birth) go through which trans women don’t and vice versa. I’m sure most people would agree that for medical research into often overlooked aspects of women’s health i.e. birth, fertility, endometriosis etc there needs to be a distinction about sex assigned at birth in data collection. However, I think this can be managed through providing suitable options in data collection etc. With regard to single sex spaces, I do understand the concerns some people have on this issue, and it has often been a heated and contentious one. I think there are ways to ensure services and sports for women (assigned at birth) are protected whilst not excluding transwomen. I appreciate that for some women, i.e. domestic abuse and rape survivors this issue can be worrying. Getting the response right will take time, there are a myriad of complexities on this issue and strong feelings that can be stoked by media and organisations with an agenda."

That's hopeless from the LDs really, all she talks about is including men in single sex services.

Worrying eh?. Stoked by media and organizations with an agenda!

"There are clearly issues that females (assigned at birth) go through which trans women don’t and vice versa"

You don't say. Maybe because you are talking about men and women. She can't say the word woman, she has to say females with a qualifying explanation in brackets using trans terminology and then goes on to refer to men as women.

We can see where her priorities lie very clearly.

The language says it all. Utter embarrassing bullshit.

Ah not all teachers love them. This is a good link:
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/drug-dealing-drinking-dirt-problems-28517175

On average, a secondary school will have around 9 children who have diagnosed epilepsy and some will have undiagnosed epilepsy or heart or circulatory conditions. So, many schools have defibrillators now. But if you can’t see the person has collapsed, they are no use as every minute reduces survival. And if a child or adult feels ill they often head to the toilet compounded by the fact that straining puts you more at risk medically, it means toilets are often the place emergencies happen.

On average, at least one child is reported to be raped inside a school premises each day (2015 figures before they started making toilets enclosed and private, and making them mixed sex). And then there’s sexual assaults, drug taking and self harm which are all easier in mixed sex, private spaces.

And if the school doesn’t reckon the above will ever happen at their school, they are not taking safeguarding seriously enough. And I believe they are breaking legislation.

If you want any more statistics and facts (I have loads) PM me.

I agree. ‘Assigned at birth’. Thinks it will be fine to ‘ban conversion therapy’ as that won’t stop much needed conversations. Seems to see young people going through a gender and identity crisis as a normal thing rather than part of a tra induced trend, with no sense of the underlying issues. Believes there are gender identities. Thinks women’s services and sports can be protected while not excluding transwomen.

The more I think about it, the more I think it's a LDHQ standard response to the Sex Matters questions. As it refers to knowing where they're from (as if that makes them less important than questions I'd personally written!).

It makes me wonder how much this plays into the fact that the Tories have had female leaders and Labour hasn't. Of course, that doesn't mean they have better policies for women, but it's interesting. I can imagine how fucking frustrating being a female labour MP must be, especially if you're a feminist.

Perhaps it’s the alignment of Labour and unions that’s made Labour a less receptive political party for women. Historically unions have been run by men to protect men’s jobs. Women took jobs away from men. As Sue Ledworth notes culture of exclusionary masculinity has been strongly embedded especially in traditional unions and among traditional male leaderships. Traces of that sentiment still running through Labour thinking.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00221856211003604

And interesting @Keeptoiletssafe thanks for that info. My friends said all the teachers loved them but it’s somewhat understandable that after battling ‘toilet’ problems for years they see this as a solution. I’ll send that info to her though just for discussion.

https://archive.ph/tjDta

Suzanne Moore also shares the same concern that so many of us have expressed about the lack of clarity from Labour.

“this is still the party where women can have penises and it says that it wants to make it easier to change gender. Its activists are fully in thrall to the Stonewall agenda even post Cass”

It truly is remarkable how many women, considered ‘left’ all have seen to agree with those of us who have been saying this for months. Only to have been mocked and gaslit that Labour really have been clear… when they have been not clear at all.

I will say one thing though. If posters who have been doing the ‘Labour has been clear, they say ‘biological women’ ‘ theme of posts were trying to turn women further off Labour, they picked a good way to do it.

Seems the most appropriate place for this, from Hannah Barnes

Thank you, that article is very well written as it makes the position clear in simple enough terms so most people could understand without previous knowledge.

It is worth keeping as a reference for trying to explain why this is important to anyone else.

It’s behind a firewall and I’ve already had my two free articles.

That article is on archive sites.

I don’t know what that means. I can’t access it from the link.

Is that the Kemi Badenoch /Spectator link? When I clicked I got it.

I think the poster referring to archive sites means: first find the site called ‘archive ph’. Then put in the headline of the article you are after in the lower box you will see on the page. If someone has archived the article, it will come up.