Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
Thread gallery
35
domineastronomy · 03/06/2024 07:05

At last a debate and I'm cautiously optimistic.
I've been writing to my MP asking for this so I'm going to sit back and see how it plays out.

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/06/2024 07:07

Blackcats7 · Today 01:01
This little twerp would sell his grandmother for more votes (pointless as nothing will save him now) and if he had genuinely been bothered he could have acted years ago.
Don’t believe a word he says.

This. Why do you fall for it?

MagnetCarHair · 03/06/2024 07:10

Fall for it? Is your assumption that women are too stupid to realise that Rishi is capitalizing on the shift in public awareness on this issue without acknowledging that women had to hustle to build that public awareness?

BettyFilous · 03/06/2024 07:11

Violetparis · 03/06/2024 00:56

Shame the Tories didn't do this at some point in the last 14 years when they had the power to do so. They are using the issue now to get at Labour in an election campaign rather than to protect women's rights. Women and girls have been badly let down by politicians on all sides.

This was exactly my reaction this morning.

ResisterRex · 03/06/2024 07:12

Radio 4 is covering this story. Say that Labour "meanwhile are seeking to show they've turned a corner on Corbyn". About defence. So doesn't look like they've responded to this

NoWordForFluffy · 03/06/2024 07:16

ResisterRex · 03/06/2024 07:12

Radio 4 is covering this story. Say that Labour "meanwhile are seeking to show they've turned a corner on Corbyn". About defence. So doesn't look like they've responded to this

They've still not responded to Atkins' emergency legislation re puberty blockers either (which would've been the natural next step when Streeting specifically urged them to act immediately on it). You'd think they'd welcome it / confirm they'd make it permanent. Silence speaks volumes to me.

They're probably attempting to draft something which sounds promising, but ultimately is noncommittal in response!

Neverstophulaing · 03/06/2024 07:16

And now that feminist activism has got this issue to the top of the agenda how are we going to put pressure on Labour. They are just going to dismiss this a a woke culture issue

This. They are already doing this. The 7am news briefing on Today on this was a disgrace. The reporter basically framed it not as a women’s right issue but a divisive culture war play. Really pissed me off.

TigathaChristie · 03/06/2024 07:17

Bloody BBC Breakfast already spinning it - saying it would ban transwomen from spaces rather than protecting women and girls.

They make me so angry 😠

TigathaChristie · 03/06/2024 07:18

Shouldn't be surprised I guess- they are centering the men rather than the women ffs!!!

WarriorN · 03/06/2024 07:23

Headline news on the bbc app

Tories pledge to tackle 'confusion' over legal definition of sex www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kkvkkejgno

Sunak: I’ll change the Equality Act to protect women’s spaces
Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 07:26

Fall for it

Blimey. Who here is fucking ‘falling for it’? Sounds like you have your own issues with any discussion on this topic rather than any accurate representation of what has been said on this thread so far.

Signalbox · 03/06/2024 07:27

One downside of the Tories doing this at this particular election is that when they lose quite badly Labour will say it’s because people are not in support of sex meaning sex and woman meaning AHF. They will see it as an endorsement of their (almost) self ID policy.

NoWordForFluffy · 03/06/2024 07:31

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 07:26

Fall for it

Blimey. Who here is fucking ‘falling for it’? Sounds like you have your own issues with any discussion on this topic rather than any accurate representation of what has been said on this thread so far.

Dismissive and patronising all in a few words.

People are really concerned about the Tories getting votes on the basis of this much-needed change to the EqA. Which is why they're desperate to dismiss those who want it as blithering idiots.

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 07:31

NoWordForFluffy · 03/06/2024 07:16

They've still not responded to Atkins' emergency legislation re puberty blockers either (which would've been the natural next step when Streeting specifically urged them to act immediately on it). You'd think they'd welcome it / confirm they'd make it permanent. Silence speaks volumes to me.

They're probably attempting to draft something which sounds promising, but ultimately is noncommittal in response!

I suspect they are playing a game of seeing where the public discussion goes and then react. I would be surprised if they release anything official at this time. They have to get their approach directed and consistence first. By that, I mean the quick sound bite before they deflect.

NoWordForFluffy · 03/06/2024 07:34

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 07:31

I suspect they are playing a game of seeing where the public discussion goes and then react. I would be surprised if they release anything official at this time. They have to get their approach directed and consistence first. By that, I mean the quick sound bite before they deflect.

I really hope it continues to be raised persistently.

I'd imagine that the sample questions for candidates from Sex Matters will have very pointed questioning on this proposal.

Neverstophulaing · 03/06/2024 07:38

MrsSkylerWhite · 03/06/2024 07:07

Blackcats7 · Today 01:01
This little twerp would sell his grandmother for more votes (pointless as nothing will save him now) and if he had genuinely been bothered he could have acted years ago.
Don’t believe a word he says.

This. Why do you fall for it?

It’s the job of politicians to appeal to things voters care about, that’s a good thing. It’s called democracy. Politicians particularly look for things voters care about at election times. That’s inevitable.

I’d rather have a party in power who are going to define sex in law as biological sex because they are motivated by what voters want, than a party like a Labour who have a principled position to effectively allow self ID at will by only requiring a GP, who has no expertise to make the difficult diagnostic decision that someone has gender identity disorder, to wave through a GRC.

As for single sex services are already ‘allowed’. It doesn’t matter if they are ‘allowed’ if services don’t proved them as they are scared of falling foul of the Equality Act, and a Labour government has signalled that a piece of paper makes men into women and has effectively made it ‘on demand’ for them to legally change sex, thus signaling to all publicly funded services that Labour is totally on board with men literally being women.

I find it really dispiriting that some are arguing against RS doing a good thing here as women are already ( technically) ‘allowed’ single sex spaces when we are in a wider, deeper culture that says we are NOT ‘allowed’ this. And it’s that wider culture that has led to the disappearance of so much single sex provision.

How have we got to the point where we think we have won because we are ‘allowed’ something, which is practice hardly even exists anymore, when that thing used to be our right, not our ‘allowance’.

I just despair.

motheronthedancefloor · 03/06/2024 07:39

Similar to PPs, I'm more interested in how other parties respond to this news.

Likely they will skip around the topic though.

BBC being clear where they stand though.

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 07:42

Signalbox · 03/06/2024 07:27

One downside of the Tories doing this at this particular election is that when they lose quite badly Labour will say it’s because people are not in support of sex meaning sex and woman meaning AHF. They will see it as an endorsement of their (almost) self ID policy.

They can try. However, the reality is that after years and years of work, Labour will not be able to deny that this is an issue that really is important. It is so important that the Tories put it on their manifesto. While Labour might try to dismiss it, they really cannot.

They might try to use it blame the Tory downfall, but they would then be signalling that they believed that the people who just voted them in (presumably they will win) are stupid. If they think spinning this issue, tacked on at the last minute, as being one that sunk the Tories, they must think voters are ridiculously gullible and unable to think through complex issues. Oh wait… seems to be some of that going around on this thread already.

RebelliousCow · 03/06/2024 07:43

This is a Badenoch led move, not a Sunak move. Hopefully she will retain her seat because we are goiung to need her on the opposition benches challenging Labour every step of the way on this issue. It is clearly too late to enact this proposal now. But hopefully it can define the terms of next stage of the debate

Viggooooh · 03/06/2024 07:43

Violetparis · 03/06/2024 00:56

Shame the Tories didn't do this at some point in the last 14 years when they had the power to do so. They are using the issue now to get at Labour in an election campaign rather than to protect women's rights. Women and girls have been badly let down by politicians on all sides.

This with bells on. Infuriating that they are using this issue in this way. And so transparent!

OpusGiemuJavlo · 03/06/2024 07:46

They had 14 years to do this. If he genuinely intended to do this it would already be done. I don't believe he would do it even if he did get in again but he won't.

Neverstophulaing · 03/06/2024 07:49

Runor · 03/06/2024 05:39

As I’ve said before, England has generally done ok on this issue compared with other western democracies. Not good, but far far better than Canada, Australia and the US. Closer to home, Spain, Germany, Ireland, even Scotland and Wales are all demonstrating how much worse it could have been. There’s lots I don’t like about the Tory government, but they have presided over Terf Island in a sea of gender identity.

We’ve now got far enough to get protections in a major political manifesto. I for one will celebrate that. And yes of course we should use this to question other parties. I don’t want women’s rights to decide my vote, it should absolutely be a given across all parties. What Sunak is saying shouldn’t need to be said, but it does, he is saying it, and we should surely welcome that. Starmer should be very. ashamed

I completely agree with this. If Labour had been in power these last ten years we would absolutely have the sort of Self ID, across the whole UK, that Scotland and Wales want us to have. You think Corbyn or Starmer would have held the line for women’s rights? They’d have sold us down the river with the smug moral certainty those types of left wing men excel in. At least the conservatives realized they’d got things wrong and reversed. Labour would never have done that, and neither would any of the other parties.

thefireplace · 03/06/2024 07:51

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 07:26

Fall for it

Blimey. Who here is fucking ‘falling for it’? Sounds like you have your own issues with any discussion on this topic rather than any accurate representation of what has been said on this thread so far.

Just listened to Badenoch interviewed on Sky.

Kemi could not answr any of the main points, toilets, sport, women in nhs & blamed the lack of action earlier on the General Election and the SNP......

Always someone else's fault, nothing to do with them.....

I'm sorry but a party that has made getting a GRC far far easier and cheaper, is not to be taken seriously, its electioneering, just as the promise of building 150 new GP surgeries is or their 2019 "40 new hospitals"

Once a liar, always a liar.

They've had many years to change the GR and EQ acts, their promises are just hot air.

ResisterRex · 03/06/2024 07:53

We've not had "14 years of the Tories". The LDs were in a coalition and I'm hugely sceptical this would have grown as it did without them and their influence. Now I think about it, I think they pushed action on FGM as a cover. Lynne Featherstone is fiercely incapable of reflecting on her part in it. You need only look at how she has spoken to Nimco Ali.

After the Tories gained a majority, I think they saw it as a fringe issue AND a lot of the groundwork had been done with people in the right posts, dismantling child and vulnerable adults safeguarding, and women's rights. So those things were in parallel.

They've also got their own TRAs (Mordaunt, Nokes) who got into key positions. But they haven't shied away from criticising those people in a fair and open way. They haven't allowed to happen, what's happened to people in the SNP, the Greens and Labour.

Had Labour been in, or had we had a Labour/LD coalition during the Isla Bryson business, we'd have had self-ID. It would be over.

MagnetCarHair · 03/06/2024 07:57

At some point, Keir-we should not say such things- Starmer will be asked if he would agree that up is down to satisfy the social progressivists in the Labour party. The answer can not fail to either demonstrate his lack of truthfulness on the one hand or reveal the out of step gender ideologues waiting in the wings.

Please create an account

To comment on this thread you need to create a Mumsnet account.

This thread is not accepting new messages.