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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions
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35
ArabellaScott · 03/06/2024 10:37

illinivich · 03/06/2024 10:09

Businesses can't falsely advertise their services. That should be the same for single sex services.

If its reasonable to believe that its a womans changing room, a support group or social group, why should they be able to define 'woman' to include men?

Business arent obliged to provide single sex services, but its not right that the use single sex as a maketing ploy, but then provide mic sex services. They shoud be advertised as mix sex.

Then consumers can make informed choices and gaps in single sex provision can be seen.

Businesses need to know the situation on providing facilities to staff, too.

Is the NHS obliged to allow a man to change with women nurses if he says he ought to be allowed to do so?

Is a small business obliged to allow men to use the women's toilets?

These questions should have very clear answers. I would suggest that no space marked for 'women' should allow men of any kind to use it. Whatever certificate he may have or not have.

EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 10:40

WarriorN · 03/06/2024 10:31

@BackToLurk - Michael is on holiday, I couldn't bold it all I'm afraid!

It's a really useful post.

That is a GIFT to both parties.

Who can argue against it??

Haha at the holiday part

It’s a great post. I’m glad people are looking at this

theilltemperedclavecinist · 03/06/2024 10:40

I think Michael's point about trans inclusion as a means to a proportionate and legitimate aim is a good one. It would allow us to invite the trans ladies to the book club, but not force us to accept them in the changing room.

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2024 10:41

WarriorN · 03/06/2024 10:16

To be clear; woman's hour wants to know the most pressing issues for women to set up interviews on the programme with various MPs

Here is how to contact them:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3xyZd5NjJZmN7WztP96vCG/contact-us

'Send us an email now to [email protected]

On Twitter and Instagram its @ BBCWomansHour (remove the space, I had to add or MN thinks it's a malformed username)

Woman’s Hour is now also on WhatsApp. The number to save into your contacts so you can WhatsApp us is 03700 100 444. You can also send us short voice notes, pictures and videos to that WhatsApp number. When using WhatsApp, please note that data charges may apply depending on your mobile or data provider. Use Wifi where possible.

You can text woman’s hour on 84844 - Texts will not be included in your inclusive text bundles, and the exact cost of each message depends on your service provider - it is typically between 10 and 15 pence per message. MMS (Picture) messages may cost more - you should check with your service provider for exact details. Please make sure you take care when entering our number as some subscription services have similar numbers to ours.

Please state clearly if you wish to remain anonymous as your message may be read out on air or published electronically. When you contribute to the BBC, we may use your contribution in our programmes or content. By sending your contribution, you are indicating that you consent that we can use the content we receive from you in this way. We cannot use everything that we receive and we cannot guarantee a personal response. Please never send us original or valuable documents.

Your trust is very important to us and the BBC is committed to protecting the privacy and security of your personal information. It is important that you read this notice so that you are aware of how and why we use such information. This privacy notice describes how we collect and use personal information about you during and after your relationship with us, in accordance with data protection law. You can find out more about your information and privacy here.

The BBC will only use your personal data provided by text, phone, email, WhatsApp message, or social media for the purposes of the programme, to verify your contribution, and should we need to get in touch with you. The personal data will be your name and contact details, such as phone number, email address or social media account name (depending on how you contact us) and any personal data you choose to give us within the content of your contribution.

We may contact you for more information or may read out your comment on air. If you do not want your name to be read out on air or do not wish to be contacted by the production team please say that in your message. If you are happy to be contacted, we will only do so about your story or comment; we will not use your data for marketing or general research and we will not give your information to anyone outside the Woman’s Hour production team.'

BBC Radio 4 - Woman's Hour - Contact us

Contact Woman's Hour

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3xyZd5NjJZmN7WztP96vCG/contact-us

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2024 10:42

ResisterRex · 03/06/2024 10:27

At least we won't have to suffer "this doesn't come up on the doorstep" this time eh Grin

We brought the doorstep to them.

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2024 10:48

Clarification on this matter would also help transpeople.

How many employers currently are wary about hiring a trans person because they don't know if they'll get sued over toilets or changing rooms?

The fuzziness and confusion of the legal situation does not protect trans people.

Make the legal situation very clear, make the law robust and unmistakeable, and that may well make businesses less worried about the potential legal issues.

Hopebridge · 03/06/2024 10:50

I hope this happens in schools. I'm all for this!

BloodyHellKenAgain · 03/06/2024 10:52

Violetparis · 03/06/2024 00:56

Shame the Tories didn't do this at some point in the last 14 years when they had the power to do so. They are using the issue now to get at Labour in an election campaign rather than to protect women's rights. Women and girls have been badly let down by politicians on all sides.

I agree, but I'm really interested in how Labour and Lib dems will address this and I really hope it comes up at the leadership TV debate 😁

ResisterRex · 03/06/2024 10:55

We brought the doorstep to them

Quite.

EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 10:58

ResisterRex · 03/06/2024 10:55

We brought the doorstep to them

Quite.

How much politicians, especially Labour, tried to stop that

They likely still will

Another moment of thanks to all the women who have been speaking up, some to great personal cost

No thanks to those who intentionally made it harder

thefireplace · 03/06/2024 11:05

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 10:21

And what? We shouldn’t make sure that the provisions are protected because ‘no funding’?

How many more times can we point out that at the moment there are women’s emergency services being forced to provide mixed sex provisions (under the guise of ‘women’s’ services to get that funding?

Besides which, we have had posters assure us that all those health services will be fixed quickly under Labour and fully funded. So, which is it?

Don’t make sure provision is place for that funding , or don’t discuss this, let’s discuss funding and then when we have that then maybe, just maybe if nothing else can be used to deflect, parliament can finally get those changes through?

No one ever has said Labour will quickly fix anything, i wish you wouldn't keep making stuff up, it adds nothing.

The point is, that we have had 14 years of Austerity, now for all i know that has been an excellent policy and one you re fully on side with? but it has made worse provision for women, which Badenoch's plan will not fix.

Change any number of laws, scrap the gRA EQ but if funding for council services is not made good, in practice makes no difference, over the last 14 years the numbers of women murdered each week goes up.

thefireplace · 03/06/2024 11:06

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2024 10:48

Clarification on this matter would also help transpeople.

How many employers currently are wary about hiring a trans person because they don't know if they'll get sued over toilets or changing rooms?

The fuzziness and confusion of the legal situation does not protect trans people.

Make the legal situation very clear, make the law robust and unmistakeable, and that may well make businesses less worried about the potential legal issues.

Exactly, you re making some excellent points.

Maddy70 · 03/06/2024 11:11

Blackcats7 · 03/06/2024 01:01

This little twerp would sell his grandmother for more votes (pointless as nothing will save him now) and if he had genuinely been bothered he could have acted years ago.
Don’t believe a word he says.

Yup

BeBraveLittlePenguin · 03/06/2024 11:13

WarriorN · 03/06/2024 10:27

Whether trans men who become pregnant are protected from pregnancy discrimination. If a GRC modifies sex for the Equality Act they likely lose protection.

This is really bloody important and clearly how the current system discriminates against trans people

It's interesting isn't it. If Freddie the seahorse has miraculously become a man upon receipt of a GRC, Freddie could scarcely legitimately demand access to sperm for the purposes of donor insemination without throwing open the door to pervy Peter (no female identity) also demanding access to sperm. One would think.

JamSlagsNowPlease · 03/06/2024 11:13

Too little too late Rishi, you are comprehensively stuffed.

EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 11:15

JamSlagsNowPlease · 03/06/2024 11:13

Too little too late Rishi, you are comprehensively stuffed.

Do you welcome Labour’s proposals on Self ID via GP or medic over EqA change?

If so, women and girls will continue to be comprehensively stuffed.

TRAs will be happy

ResisterRex · 03/06/2024 11:18

Neale Hanvey. Also retweeting Alastair Campbell:

x.com/jnhanvey/status/1797559234730561973?s=46&t=WHoOZ_3Kv5G6-FyQuvE0LQ

"I may disagree with @KemiBadenoch on many things, but as minister for women & equality she has been excellent.

Campbell betrays @UKLabour’s contempt for women children and LGB people by distorting the defence of sex-based rights and safeguarding as an attack on men’s wants and needs.

Labour can’t be trusted.

#ALBAequalities
🗳️#VoteHANVEY #VoteALBA"

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 11:18

thefireplace · 03/06/2024 11:05

No one ever has said Labour will quickly fix anything, i wish you wouldn't keep making stuff up, it adds nothing.

The point is, that we have had 14 years of Austerity, now for all i know that has been an excellent policy and one you re fully on side with? but it has made worse provision for women, which Badenoch's plan will not fix.

Change any number of laws, scrap the gRA EQ but if funding for council services is not made good, in practice makes no difference, over the last 14 years the numbers of women murdered each week goes up.

I didn't say 'you' had said Labour will quickly fix anything. I am saying others elsewhere have been saying it.

You keep telling me I am making stuff up, well you keep using this '14 years' as some kind of false timeline to make the Tories look even worse than they are. You are not the only one. It is a false timeline when you look at it. The only think that is factual about it is that they have been in power for 14 years. But other than that, it is an irrelevant point that you keep bringing up.

Now you have just attempted to leverage women's murders to somehow detract from us discussing this issue.

So, which is it? We shouldn't be discussing how this can work because 'well, it is pointless because of funding' or we should be discussing how this can work.

MagnetCarHair · 03/06/2024 11:20

It's almost as though some people are pissed off that this has become part of the election dialogue? They are certainly far more vocal about it today, when it has become part of the news cycle, than they did when it was entirely missing from the agenda last week. 🤔

CassieMaddox · 03/06/2024 11:21

@EasternStandard Labour are not proposing self-ID. Saying they are is deliberately misleading. I don't know why you would choose to do that.

Labour are proposing streamlining it - after consultation. At the moment it costs £5 ( bought in under the Tories) but needs a panel of medics. That means it's expensive to the public purse, taking uo scarce resource that could be treating patients who need it, and is likely to be unnecessarily time consuming and inefficient in having to coordinate.

It seems sensible to make the process more efficient. 5000 people have a GRC. Making it so one doctor signs it off instead of several is not going to change the price of fish in terms of numbers of trans people. And it is nothing like "self-ID".

The Conservatives haven't proposed repealing the GRA - why is that?

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 11:21

thefireplace · 03/06/2024 11:05

No one ever has said Labour will quickly fix anything, i wish you wouldn't keep making stuff up, it adds nothing.

The point is, that we have had 14 years of Austerity, now for all i know that has been an excellent policy and one you re fully on side with? but it has made worse provision for women, which Badenoch's plan will not fix.

Change any number of laws, scrap the gRA EQ but if funding for council services is not made good, in practice makes no difference, over the last 14 years the numbers of women murdered each week goes up.

The issue being discussed here will not improve any provision for women? At all?

And you talk about people 'making stuff up'.

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 11:23

CassieMaddox · 03/06/2024 11:21

@EasternStandard Labour are not proposing self-ID. Saying they are is deliberately misleading. I don't know why you would choose to do that.

Labour are proposing streamlining it - after consultation. At the moment it costs £5 ( bought in under the Tories) but needs a panel of medics. That means it's expensive to the public purse, taking uo scarce resource that could be treating patients who need it, and is likely to be unnecessarily time consuming and inefficient in having to coordinate.

It seems sensible to make the process more efficient. 5000 people have a GRC. Making it so one doctor signs it off instead of several is not going to change the price of fish in terms of numbers of trans people. And it is nothing like "self-ID".

The Conservatives haven't proposed repealing the GRA - why is that?

Edited

Do you support a single GP sign off for the application and then it simply rubber stamped?

CassieMaddox · 03/06/2024 11:26

Helleofabore · 03/06/2024 11:18

I didn't say 'you' had said Labour will quickly fix anything. I am saying others elsewhere have been saying it.

You keep telling me I am making stuff up, well you keep using this '14 years' as some kind of false timeline to make the Tories look even worse than they are. You are not the only one. It is a false timeline when you look at it. The only think that is factual about it is that they have been in power for 14 years. But other than that, it is an irrelevant point that you keep bringing up.

Now you have just attempted to leverage women's murders to somehow detract from us discussing this issue.

So, which is it? We shouldn't be discussing how this can work because 'well, it is pointless because of funding' or we should be discussing how this can work.

Kemi Badenoch originally said they were going go change the EA well over a year ago. Then has sat on it.
They had the majority to do it in this parliament. They are unlikely to have the majority to do so in the next. I think she has stalled to use the change to score electoral points (as per the Lee Anderson strategy) rather than doing her job and getting it through this parliament, if it's so important to protect women and girls.
It's cynical and they must think women are stupid.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lee-anderson-tories-election-trans-b2282185.html

Lee Anderson says Tories should fight election on ‘culture wars’

Party no longer has ‘great ingredients’ like Brexit and Jeremy Corbyn, says deputy chairman

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/lee-anderson-tories-election-trans-b2282185.html

EasternStandard · 03/06/2024 11:27

MagnetCarHair · 03/06/2024 11:20

It's almost as though some people are pissed off that this has become part of the election dialogue? They are certainly far more vocal about it today, when it has become part of the news cycle, than they did when it was entirely missing from the agenda last week. 🤔

Of course they’re pissed off

Labour are wedded to gender ideology and they don’t want that exposed

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