Emma Barnett and Gillian Keegan.

[heldinadream]

Today prog R4 now - Emma holding GK to account!
16/05/24 8.45 been going on about 10 minutes really worth listening to!

The thing about changing birth certificates is that they are signed and dated so even if Belinda previously Barry does produce one that says female it’ll be dated 40 or 50 years after he was born so clearly not the original.
unless I am missing something?

I think the issue was that schools were / are using 3rd party providers who refused to hand over the training information using copywrite as the reason. Parents were sometimes given permission to view the training at a specific time in school but couldn’t take photos and clearly most parents aren’t going to have time to do that so it effectively means parents didn’t get to see what their kids were being taught. I think that will now have to change and the providers can no longer object

Didn't someone say she specifically mentioned copyright?

Because there was a school who would not let parents see what gender identity ideology materials were being taught to their children on the basis that the outside agency doing it claimed it would infringe on their copyright.

they seemed to think that if people saw it, they would be clamouring to duplicate it. Well, that's what they said. 🙄

Most people suspected that what they were worried about was parents seeing it and going ballistic.

And I don't think they were alone. There has been a push to stop parents seeing what is taught in terms of sex education and gender ideology.

I think one school said parents could see it, but only if they came in and looked at it in the office, they couldn't take it home.

Who would have thought that teaching little kids about sex would attract so many dodgy players?

Cross post sashagabadon

There's absolutely no doubt that some grim stuff has been taught to our children. From the bloody sex dice to play with your teacher, to the awful man who told a 12-year-old girl that it was fine for her to watch porn every night.

As the Tories have had 14 years to amend the GRA, i don't know why you think Labour would be less likely too? both parties are equally committed to it.

The GRA was backed very widely by both the Tory opposition and the Govt, in both the Lords and the Commons.

What are you expecting from Labour?

They introduced the GRA and make statements on defending it

Yes, my kids primary school uses a fairly rubbish outside provider (not in a dodgy way, just not that good) who will only let parents see the broad brush 'what is covered' bullet points and not actual teaching materials because 'copyright'. There's a lot of devil in the detail, or could be. Frankly the school budget could do without paying for this. I'm sure some of the teachers could do something much better with a day of cover.

I think they'd probably allow parents in school to see it there if needed but a lot of parents don't have time 'I need to take time off work because my school is being secretive about RSE' is a fairly ridiculous. Any reasonable employer will say 'why on earth can't they email you the slides?!'

And as PP have said, they're not so cagey about Maths teaching.

My daughter thankfully tells me pretty much everything. However as she's quite young it can come back quite garbled. It's not in children's best interests to not allow parents to see what they're being taught - not least so they can clear up misconceptions.

What I think is telling is that a lot of these dodgy organisations really thought they'd get away with doing this and the kids wouldn't tell their parents. Just no sense.

The idea that RSE needs to include something about colonisation is still blowing my mind.

I'm a regular on these boards but name changed for this to say Gillian Keegan is my MP. I have yet to listen to her interview with Emma Barnett on catch up but she is talking utter bollocks to say she didn't know about this before 2020.

I wrote to her about the proposed reforms to the GRA in October 2018 and asked her to attend a discussion meeting at the House of Commons to which she had been invited. Her office replied to say she was aware of the issues and had already had several meetings with constituents to hear their thoughts and her diary manager would put the upcoming meeting in her diary.

And I wrote to her again in the run up to the election in 2019.

Oh dear, Gillian. Pants on fire.

Keegan kept conflating gender with sex and therefore contradicting herself.

Thanks for sharing this.

She is not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Makes much of having left school at 16 and succeeded in business. Good on her. But analysis, concepts, critical thinking, anything vaguely 'intellectual'? Meh.

She wasn’t the minister at the time in 2020 though. Iirc it was gavin what his name and he was busy causing havoc with exams and on line teaching and whether 5 year olds should wear masks ( spoiler they shouldn’t)
also this guidance can only be effective now in 2024. There is no point being right too early! It would be a strategic mistake.
in 2020-2023 stonewall etc were arguably too powerful and influential for this guidance to see the light of day.
it’s the Cass report that has allowed it and that literally came out a month ago.
sometimes things have to run their course and if you try and make changes too early people aren’t ready to hear it and it would have been dismissed as scaremongering or bigotry. It is harder to make those arguments now in 2024 when most people had a better handle on the issues.

Love EB

Just listened to it. It's an outright lie to say she only first started getting emails about this in 2020 and had never come across it before. I've got copies of my emails to her in 2018 and 2019 and detailed responses from her office.

It's entirely possible that she personally didn't see them. We have heard before how office staff have kept this kind of thing from the minister involved.

That's entirely possible but I do think in post Cass world we will be hearing a lot of 'I've only just been made aware of this' disingenuous type statements.

I had the same thought about correspondence.

Certainly not a GK fan. But she is more or less doing what we all wanted here. Her EB interview wasn't great (EB also not great in that segment IMO) but she was better in Parliament. Some MPs' questions of her were rather concerning, and indicated a terrible lack of knowledge. So at least this small act - no more than they owe us - at least is a good thing.

Let's say it goes through, well then if Labour want to change it, they will have consult and tell us why they're removing all the safeguards and age appropriate rules that were just put back in.

It would be very depressing if they did reverse it

I'm not sure they would Eastern. It would lead the press for days on end. But this at least stops them expanding the current situation by stealth.

I’m so relieved we have the Cass review and puberty blockers have been stopped, plus new guidance

Does anyone think about how hard some worked to stop women speaking up and claim to appreciate those things now?

The change didn’t just happen, it took hard yards

Anyway I’ll focus on the good we’ve done so far.

The Tories have defended it too, like i said earlier, no difference between the 2 parties.
So i'm not expecting anything from Labour on the GRA.

Funnily enough puberty blockers haven't been stopped, they just won't be routinely prescribed, existing will still get them as will those children who access medical trials.

No numbers on who will be put forward for trials or criteria mmmmmm now call me cynical!

Sure, I suspect there are cases in which junior staff have filtered out or 'lost' gender critical communications but I find it very hard to believe that they would bother to respond to me with a baldfaced lie that Keegan has already met constituents and discussed the issue. On reviewing the correspondence I see that I also had a prior telephone conversation with this individual who was confirming this in writing. Not the actions of someone trying to avoid engagement and just sweep it under the carpet.

Well you can say it twice but looking at the trajectory we’re clearly moving away from gender in a way other countries either are not or are following after Cass

Labour likely would have seen us more Canada territory by now

If labour had been in power we’d have gender self if by the back door nowhia Scotland. It was Kemi Badenoch’s plan to call the Scottish Government bluff on this and block their gender self ID legislation arguably causing SNP to implode.
There’s no way on God’s green earth Labour would have made that decision at that time.
Also labour would never have set the Cass review in motion and funded it back in 2020. Never would have happened

Sadly all true