DD14 is regularly assumed to be trans/NB/a boy - any advice on how she can respond?

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She is tall with short hair and a low voice and only wears trousers / shorts etc plus has always liked stuff that people (even in 2024) seem more likely to associate with boys - football, techie stuff etc. She regularly gets assumed to be NB or a boy and, if she says she's a girl, is often then assumed to be a trans girl.

On the whole, she's not bothered if people assume she's a boy and won't bother correcting them but quite a few times people have looked surprised / affronted to find her in a girls loo (or other girl's/woman's space) and she finds this embarrassing. She's asked me what to say to people when this happens. She doesn't want to be confrontational or make anyone fell awkward because she thinks it's not coming from an unkind place i.e. people are either genuinely confused or just trying to not offend. So, any advice on a quick way of knocking this on the head and not turning it into 'a thing'? Thank you.

A similar issue here. DD11 has close cropped hair and is very tall and skinny- if she follows my trajectory she will be 6ft tall by 13 and have at least a year and a half more of being flat-chested and slim hipped.

Her issue is that kids are shouting at her that she’s a lesbian. I’m at a loss as to what to do. How do I convey that

a)there’s nothing wrong with being a lesbian and
b) acknowledge that the kids saying this are doing so to be insulting and come up with a good comeback

Its infuriating. Her ear piercings got infected so she can’t wear earrings atm and I know this will stop once she gets them re-pierced. But it shouldn't be this way,

How I miss the 1980’s when heaps of girls wore their hair short.

Some of the issue is just about fashion and conforming to the prevailing fashion. It shouldn't be the way but always has been. Long hair/short hair has been an ongoing cycle since 1920s. It's a shame in this day and age it leads to comments but at the same time there has been a cultural shift in that young people are particularly comfortable with language around what is regarded as identity and apparently feel its their job to comment. The poster who said wear pretty ear rings got told this is ridiculous a suggestion, and that's my reaction initially. But actually , if its about fashion, not following this is a preference and you can play that game differently and this could be the young person's response to the comments.

"I am a teenage biological female who chooses to dress and have interests that I feel comfortable with. Just because I don't have "traditional" feminine interests and looks makes me no less female."

I have always worn my hair short and was teased mercilessly at school for it, 35 years ago!

At an event I had a marshall shout "stop!" as I headed into the women's toilets. Quite a few people stopped to look at what was happening. I turned around and he saw immediately that I was female (I had very short hair at the time, am tall, and also dress in boxy/"androgynous" clothes so easy to mistake for male from behind - it has happened several times, but always been corrected when they see my face) and was totally mortified.

It was a little embarrassing, but also quite funny.

OP, I think it's as other posters have said - it's usually very easy to tell from someone's face whether they're male or female. If it isn't yet, then it absolutely will be as your daughter becomes a narrow-shouldered, stubble-free 16 year old.

My best friend is a butch lesbian and has reached the age of 'zero fucks to give'. She is appreciative of females who look out for females when in doubt. Like others on here, she'll say something along the lines of, 'it's ok I'm female'. This tends to be much easier at 50 than 15 though!

I think this experience goes to show that females want the social norm to be that only females use female loos. TRAs love to point out that butch lesbians suffer as a result of GCs desire for single sex rather than single gender provision. However, if males, regardless of how they identify, respectfully stayed out of female spaces, the females using them would be far more relaxed about gender non conforming females than they are now. The default would be, 'they must be gender non conforming' not 'are they male'.

I think if people were often staring at me, especially with any sort of negative inflection I'd not be saying anything to them.

But I might give them the finger and point out it's rude to stare.

If someone asked me if I was a man or a woman, I think I'd trot out the mumsnet classic of "did you mean to be so rude?"

Had a crazy day today and only returning to this thread now. Lovely to read all your sensible supportive responses- thank you.

it was the stock phrase she was looking for and you’ve supplied lots of helpful suggestions. Can totally imagine it gets easier with time (and that sex differences become more obvious also) she’s just at peak awkwardness for now! But, as a few of you have said, nice that we’re able to have the conversation.

People assume I am trans or lesbian, I have been called ‘sir’ a few times but I just laugh it off. I have short hair, have always been a Tom boy but 100% straight and female 😁.

My son gets this. He looks rather feminine or androgynous - long hair, pretty face etc.

He has been asked by other kids if he is trans since he was 13 and adults used to regularly say things like "she's lovely" etc etc since he was a small boy and like you said, do a double take and seem affronted when I'd say "he's a boy."

He's 18 now so it happens less with adults but his peers still assume he's "enby."

He doesn't seem to care. He laughs about it. I've always told him he is a beautiful boy and how much I love my boy. And also that it's not an insult to look like a girl, some people are just GNC or androgynous and some people just make assumptions.

Just keep making sure your daughter knows you love how she looks because she is her and you wouldn't change anything about her and continue to inculcate a sense of comfort in her own skin and in being a girl. It's one of the most important things for teenagers imo.

It's such a crazy cultural environment now that any kids who are GNC or kind of androgynous in appearance have to deal with assumptions about trans or enby stuff. But hopefully, it's just benign curiosity and not bullying. Your daughter sounds lovely!

I think people double take and ask the silly questions these days because they are so desperate NOT to offend those who would take massive offence at you not instantly recognising their gendered soul.

It’s silly but there you are. As an 80s teen I was called ‘son’ a few times and thought it was hilarious.

Absolutely not, horrible idea. Women are under no obligation to perform femininity, and OP's DD would be better off getting a little aggressive and telling people she's not going to play Barbie doll for them. As well as counter the pronouns probe with "why are you asking?"

She's not under an obligation to change how she dresses and presents herself but she could if she wished to and she thought it would help. I've no doubt op has a great relationship with her daughter and would know if her daughter wanted to dress in a more usual feminine style but some girls are undermined by their families, don't get a chance to experiment with clothing etc, and may want to feel they can or are supported to without being made to feel silly about wanting to conform.

Please don’t force your gender stereotypes on me.

Optional extra:

Biology is real. I am female.

I'm wondering whether this really a thing? Girls being made to feel silly by their families for wanting to experiment with looking traditionally feminine?

Or is this an assumption that they will of course feel this way if they have non gender confirming mums?

(I'm not trying to be arsey, I'm just interested to explore this idea).

Teen years are a time for individuation from your family, I can't imagine many kids would be put off wearing dangly ear rings if they thought their mum wouldn't approve - I'm sure most would see
that as a positive bonus?

And given how much pressure there is from society and the media these days to look 'ultra feminine' (in a way that most of us didn't experience growing up a few decades ago), I wonder whether having a family that doesn't buy into that would really not only balance that out but actively pressure girls the other way? I find it hard to imagine that it would.

I think it's an interesting idea to explore, how gender non confirming women are often assumed to be 'forcing' that on their daughters - a friend of mine was sick of everything marketed for girls these days being pink. One of her relatives interpreted that as her not allowing her daughter to have anything pink. She couldn't get them to understand that it wasn't about telling her daughter not to choose pink clothes etc, it was about giving her the choice of all the options that society seems to be telling her aren't for her.

In my experience this seems to be a common assumption.

I disagree - I don’t think getting aggressive or demanding to know why they’re asking serves any purpose. Women are understandably very upset/angry/fearful/etc of males forcing themselves into female spaces - it’s far better imo for the OP’s DD to have a productive discussion, and reassure them that there’s no need to be concerned or whatever they’re feeling and that she’s female.

We shouldn’t be having to have this conversation in women’s spaces of course, but the TRAs have caused this to happen.

I guess there's so many trans/nb kids around now. So if she dresses like a boy, has short hair and low voice, then I guess they're assuming that whereas in the past it would just be she looked like a bio boy.
I'd say it will decrease as she gets older. I know this is a bit different but I was regularly, daily confused for a boy by strangers at primary school age. Short hair, boyish clothes a lot of the time. It did annoy me a bit, but not enough to make me don a pink dress! One horrible old bloke with a moustache in a cafe told me off once as 'young man'. I cheekily quipped back 'oh, sorry Madam' lol.
If anyone does misgender her just firmly correct them 'no, I'm female/No, I'm a 'she'.' then move on the convo. Is her name also a bit unisex? That could add to it I suppose. It's good she's not bothered by it.

It find it troubling that a women or girls are assumed to be making a statement if they do not want long hair. I have worn my hair short most of my adult life and DH is fine with it. I am bothered when people assume I am doing it to send a message.

I was often assumed to be a boy when I was a teenager in the 80s/90s so it’s definitely not a new thing! I used to find it quite distressing mostly because I was quite awkward and shy and wasn’t sure whether I was meant to correct people.

Ive had people on MN tell this didn’t happen because people can “always tell” by the way.

Interesting read. My DD14 has had the same thing and she was quite upset about it. (The person who thought she was a boy was American and I do wonder whether that made a difference - perhaps they thought they were being inclusive or something?) She is already super self-conscious about her height and doesnt need this too!

This happened constantly to my friend until she grew her hair into a more feminine longer style. Is that something she would consider?

Otherwise it's just something she will have to contend with. If ot doesn't bother her then why are you worried?

This has happened to my niece (13) many times, for the same reasons. My son (13) and her are close. People frequently call them 'young lads' etc when they are out and about. Even teachers at their school! Really annoying.
My son makes a joke of it and says in a really over the top camp voice 'Are you assuming my gender. Cos that's offensive.' It takes the pressure off it for both of them.
Could work said by a singular girl too. I love it cos its taking the piss out of the gender nonsense that gets thrown at them all the time at school.
Luckily my son is not captured by it all al and can see beyond the sterotypical depiction of men/ women the trans movement leans into.

I really dislike the fact that anything a woman does with her appearance is 'a statement' - dyeing your hair, not shaving your legs, losing weight, putting on weight, building muscle, wearing a dress.. .

I've had people comment about all these things in a way I don't think they would for a bloke.

I'm not making a feminist statement, I just can't be arsed to shave / enjoy exercise / have eaten a lot of cakes recently etc.

Strong disagree. No way is the OP's daughter obliged to be kind and focus on making rude strangers feel better about themselves by talking them through her body and personal choices. Definitely vote in favour of 'did you mean to be so rude' and walk away.

‘Did you mean to be so rude’ and walking away is not aggressive though - and saying ‘I’m female’ is factual, not kind.

But what you suggested was 'have a productive discussion, and reassure them that there’s no need to be concerned or whatever they’re feeling and that she’s female'. I absolutely don't think that kind of public rudeness, not to mention obnoxious policing of women who aren't performing femininity well enough, deserves 'reassurance' or 'discussion' or any kind of validation.