DD14 is regularly assumed to be trans/NB/a boy - any advice on how she can respond?

[whatsinanumber]

She is tall with short hair and a low voice and only wears trousers / shorts etc plus has always liked stuff that people (even in 2024) seem more likely to associate with boys - football, techie stuff etc. She regularly gets assumed to be NB or a boy and, if she says she's a girl, is often then assumed to be a trans girl.

On the whole, she's not bothered if people assume she's a boy and won't bother correcting them but quite a few times people have looked surprised / affronted to find her in a girls loo (or other girl's/woman's space) and she finds this embarrassing. She's asked me what to say to people when this happens. She doesn't want to be confrontational or make anyone fell awkward because she thinks it's not coming from an unkind place i.e. people are either genuinely confused or just trying to not offend. So, any advice on a quick way of knocking this on the head and not turning it into 'a thing'? Thank you.

Isn't it a regressive time? DD looks at photos of her when younger in horror - "look at my short hair! " The expectations imposed on girls and young women are so depressing.

Well done to every girl / young woman who continues to have the hair they want - not what others expect.

Not sure why some PPs have been going on about pronouns.

This is about people assuming that both girls and boys / women and men should conform to some sort of 1950s stereotype.

Its hard to fathem how we have gone so far backwards as a society that the "gender benders" of the 70s/80s now seem to be forgotten.

I dont even think this is about the trans agenda, although maybe a consequence of their absurd gender conforming notions.

Absolutely should no girl or young woman should be told to somehow try and appear more "feminine".

I think it brilliant that DD seems to be mostly confident and assured about who she is, how she dresses and isn't endlessly trying to conform to so current notion of how she should be.

But can see that it could get tiresome that some people think they can challenge others because they are so small minded.

If she feels okay just saying I'm female just support her for being so confident.

Or you could come up with some sort of little jokes she could add such as yes I'm female, women come in all shapes and sizes. (Sorry cant actually think of any.)

Sorry this probably isn't that helpful, but the best think seems to be that she feels able to talk to you about it.

That's is so great.

(I asserted this isn't anything to do with trans agenda. Has there ever been an example of someone challenging her that she was a male "indentifying" as a female to access the Ladies' Toilets?)

@IwantToRetire is right that it's good your DD can talk to you about this OP, a real positive. A good opportunity to discuss regressive stereotypes.

Not sure why some PPs have been going on about pronouns.

It was one of OP's comments, that her daughter was asked pronouns when other more stereotype conforming children weren't. And that bit is absolutely down to the gender movement. And yes, it's regressive.

I was 14 in the 90s and I distinctly remember being challenged for being in the girls toilets on two occasions. So unfortunately it isn’t a new thing arising from pronouns.

That'd probably make it all the more likely someone thinks she's a 'transgirl'.

And of course, she absolutely shouldn't have to adopt any gender stereotypes. My dd is an engineer who wouldn't be seen dead 'pretty earrings and mascara' ... fortunately (i suppose) she's short and curvy so doesn't fall prey to sexist shit of the sort the OPs dd is encountering.

It was one of OP's comments

Oh - sorry - must have missed that.

What a pain for her and depressing to have to, but all I can suggest is a casual 'I'm female thanks' and move on.

Teenagers often look androgynous, I looked like a boy at 16 and occasionally got asked if I was a boy or a girl.

Best thing is just to get her to say "I'm a girl" consistently if asked, not give her pronouns or dress up.

I think needs to practice her deadpan ‘I’m a girl of course’ or ‘why would you think that?’ Or ‘are girls not allowed to wear jeans/play football/skateboard?’

It wasn't unusual when I was that age or, even more recently, when my DD was. No one ever mistook either of us for boys and DD was very "tomboyish" for want of a better word.
It's fucking gender nonsense that's causing this. Nothing else.

Mental when just being a women is so radical it confuses people 😭

I would tell her to embrace it. Just simply say ‘I’m a woman’. She might teach these poor youngsters a thing or two.

And if it expands. She can just say I don’t conform to gender stereotypes. If they say well does that mean you’re non binary. Say no I’m a woman and laugh. 🤣

Same here, I had super short hair for awhile as a teen. Didn't see it as a big deal and nobody else did either.

This is terrible advice.

OP, two of my butch lesbian friends were semi-regularly mistaken for teenage boys in their twenties, often in toilets. One of them dealt with it really badly- would mumble that she was a woman without making eye-contact and make it awkward for everyone involved. The other would do a cheery, "Oh don't worry, I'm a woman!" with a smile, which was a much better way of dealing with it.

It's great that your daughter is talking to you about this. I would remind her that the people mistaking her for a boy are not doing it maliciously and just need a quick correction. If they are a dick about it after being corrected, then she has every right to be snarky with them.

If it matters or she wants to then she should point out she is a girl/woman. I’m 50 and I still sometimes get mistaken as a man (I am six foot with an essence of brick shit house), it has happened all my life. I find a big grin helps and it gets easier the more you do it

I agree with Glwysen and Thirdfiddle, a smile and a gentle correction, perhaps “quite a few people get that wrong”.

I think people are more likely to be mortified by their mistake than to doubt her.

People regularly confuse me with my husband on the phone. I just put them right in a friendly way without making a fuss.

Even if your DD stays looking more or less the same as she does now the boys in her age group are going to change considerably in the coming years.

I can clearly remember being taller than all the boys in my year at the end of summer term, when we started back in the September some of them towered above me.

At 14 girls have got a head start on the growth trajectory but by 16 or so the boys start growth spurting and sexual dimorphism really kicks in. By 6th form most boys are considerably bigger/smellier/hairier/deeper voiced than their female classmates.

Of course, this may mean that in a few years time your DD is assumed to be a teenage boy rather than a young adult woman so it’s probably worth getting her one of those proof of age cards as soon as relevant, just so she doesn’t constantly risk mislaying her passport in the uni bar!

I’ve had some pretty masculine phases in my life and I found that while I might be assumed male from a distance/whilst standing still, as soon as I moved/smiled/spoke people immediately realised I was female, so while someone might well shout ‘Hey mate, you can’t go in there, that’s the ladies’ at my back, turning around with a smile and saying ‘Thanks!’ results in an embarrassed apology.

Of course, my experience largely predates all the gender-identity-assumptions/pronoun ritual stuff and now I’m middle aged so while I have had a little boy outright ask me if I was a boy or a girl, his mum tried to shush him rather than interject with a careful ‘or perhaps this is a nonbinary person, little Timmy?’ 😬

A few stock answers might be useful for your DD (eg I told the little boy ‘I’m a girl, but I prefer boy’s clothes’ which he must’ve found to be a satisfactory answer, as his next question was about my bicycle.

’Pronouns? Just the standard girl ones’

’I’m a tomboy, not an actual boy’

if your DD feels like she has to tread carefully with certain people/ use trans-language when pressed she could say something like ‘I’m a GNC cis girl’ but as a cantankerous middle aged terf I’d be more inclined to say ‘I’m female, as in, a girl’ and if anyone asks my pronouns I either say ‘sex based, like my oppression’, and in a group situation I find a simple ‘No, but thank you’ causes just enough confusion to make the group leader move on to the next person.

My blonde son was regularly mistaken for a girl up until he was about 15. He still has long blonde hair in his mid 20s but no one ever mistakes him for a girl anymore, they just assume he’s from California rather than North London!

Oh, dear, I am sure this must make her feel very uncomfortable indeed. I suggests she comes up with a simple and short response and stick with it. Next time someone says something, she should just say, "I am a woman!"

its in the thread title

I agree. If people actually look, it’s very easy to tell someone’s sex regardless how they present themselves in terms of clothes hair etc.

One of my DDs had a pixie cut for a few years when she was a bit younger than yours. She was regularly assumed to be a boy, seemingly not helped by her nickname and clothing being fairly androgynous. It tended to be people talking about her rather than directly to her that thought she was a boy but at on one memorable occasion, a group of similarly aged children kept going on and on at her about how she must be a boy. In the end, she shouted at them, "I have a vagina!". It stopped their comments, whether through embarrassment or shock, we will never know.

DD 18 is regularly assumed to be male, though it's a reasonable assumption given the fact she is very androgynous. Noone has asked publicly though at the pub she works at she often gets called, "Mate" by men ordering drinks which she ignores as much as possible.

I feel saying "I am a biological female" is necessary in these crazy times.
OP's daughter sounds very level headed and will probably find her own way of dealing with stupid people in time. If it is not causing her significant distress, why worry about it and amplify the issue?

DD(16) and I have had conversations about this - she is so quick to 'trans' people if they have short hair or dress 'boyish' and it drives me mad. She doesn't even believe in gender stuff, but I suppose it's what she's getting from school. It's just so unusual for teen and pre-teen girls to have short hair. And DD is a very sporty girl who trains hard for her sport, is happy to be strong and muscular. But the hair must be long! It's bizarre. (she wouldn't say anything to them obv but it's annoying that she thinks it)
And on the other hand, I am a 6ft woman with large features who is now wondering how long before I'm asked to leave a ladies toilet. I do have long hair but so do the TW. I suppose a 50 yo woman and a 50 yo transwoman look a lot less alike than a 14 yo girl and a 14 yo boy.