Sir Kier Starmer on GMB now being asked what his stance on trans gender is

[SpringLobelia]

He said he apologises to people eating their breakfast'.

He is being questioned about his treatment of Rosie Duffield but he's not answered really and moved the convo swiftly to Brianna Ghey

Susannah said you told the MP Rosie Duffield that she is wrong to say only women have a cervix and he is again deflecting.

Says he believes in safe spaces for women.

Women's prisons? - deflects again to the NHS today. no answer to any direct questions.

Says again about safe spaces being important- but again deflecting and whittering about the constituion

SR asking for clarity- is it right or wrong for RD to say only women have a cervix - KS- she is biologically right. SR- should you apologise to her?
KS- deflects. Wants discussion. Not answering the question.

I'm giving up now. He can't even string a coherent sentence together. Keeps deflecting.

IMO of course.

It's possible to care about multiple issues at the same time.......

I think you'll be very disappointed if you think there is going to be a radical change in the health service under Labour. They have committed to the same spending plans, for a start.

The right to be recognised and protected as a distinct category of human being - that is a human female. 'Women's rights' stem from the recognition that women are a distinct group with specific needs. All else is 'human rights. Women are adult human females.

If you cannot distinguish between one category and another how can you create decent, workable law? Clarity is required, with clear definitions - or else you end up with men in women's spaces; men who rape being referred to as women; women having to call their attacker " she" in court. Girls at school having to share toilets with the boys; women losing out on medals in sporting competitions to men etc.....Your Mum being put in a hospital bed next to man with a penchant for voyeurism.........Single sex spaces were an achievement in women's rights.

If you cannot define, then everything else is shaky.

I'm not using it as a political football. I'm saying what I think is more important.

I ask this regularly on here. But can you outline what rights I have had that I no longer have, or will lose, if I accept Trans people as equal to everyone?

Labour have categorically announced they won’t be investing any more money into the NHS. I am seriously concerned that people feel things are going to magically change for the better under Starmer, they actually believe the COL will evaporate, benefits will be overflowing, the NHS will be wonderful and suddenly everything is great. There are going to be so many disappointed and jaded voters out there if he does get in.

You can start your own thread about that if you want to. You can’t derail someone else’s.

See my post above.......

If Keir does have a "trans" child (i.e. believes he does as there is no such thing in reality) then he should not be PM. Nearly all parents would place their own perception (whether right or wrong) of what is best for their own child above all other considerations. I certainly do. So the danger is that he would not be able to do what was best for the common good if he was trying to simultaneously do what he perceives to be the "best" (rightly or wrongly) for his own child. Given that he thinks a woman can have a penis, we know that his grip on reality in this field is not to be relied on.

I did catch the bit of the interview that was something about it him admitting it is "biologically" correct that men can't have cervixes (saw a short clip on X, don't really want to watch the while thing). Other than "biologically" in what sense can a person "have" a cervix?? It's a body part, not a state of mind.

OK, a PP noted that it wasn't cervixes but penises that might put us off our breakfast. Well, I admit that theoretically an actual one presented to me at the breakfast table might do so, depending on whose it was and what state it was in. But the concept of a penis doesn't do that to any normal person over sixteen or so.

Edit for typos and a disappearing sentence!

There is no evidence he has a trans identifying child.

So he admitted Rosie Duffield was right, and then immediately refused to apologise for saying she was wrong?

Not yet. Apart from when he used the wrong sex to describe his child - that was quite a moment. Most of us know the sex of our own children!

@BonfireLady did it a page or two ago.

You may not feel that you have lost any rights, but a woman who loses a medal in a women's sports competition to a natal male has definitely lost out. A woman raped in prison by a natal male claiming to be a woman has had her rights to safety infringed.

No one is saying that trans people shouldn't have rights. We're saying that there is a conflict of rights and we think the rights of 35 million women and girls in the UK are rather important. That we don't want women and girls put in dangerous situations to make a few natal males a bit happier.

I don't know about you, but I worry about vulnerable women and girls. But you're alright, Jill, so I guess the rest of us should just shut up.

Edited to expand on my response.

''OK, a PP noted that it wasn't cervixes but penises that might put us off our breakfast. Well, I admit that theoretically an actual one presented to me at the breakfast table it might do so, depending on whose it was and what state it was in. But the concept of a penis doesn't do that to any normal person over sixteen or so.Edited''

Very true. Although my 14 year old came over all horrified that one of the answers on Countdown this morning was 'sensual'. That was at breakfast time.

I think he'd be fine with penis and would have to ask what a cervix is. Maybe David Lammy could explain that one.

and the woman who was raped by a biological male on a woman's ward while the hospital claimed for more than a year that there were only women on that ward has certainly had her rights to safety eroded.

Every woman who has been raped and who has to call her attacker 'she' in court is having her right to truth and justice eroded.

The right to privacy from marauding makes in women's spaces picture this your raped (with a penis for avoidance of doubt) your attacker comes to court stating they are female so you are forced to refer to them as such and if you deviate your told off on repeat you lose your case you go to a rape crisis center to find it full of men with beards saying they are women just like your attacker you leave and speak to someone about women only rape support only to be scolded "those ARE women" you try your dr and when you eventually get an appointment your again scolded just because they "seem" like your attacker doesn't mean they are your attacker "trans women are women" so you reach out online only for the police to show up and accuse you of a hate crime because you didn't want support in the same group as biological men

Which you are prosecuted for

Have you got a link to an interview or something...or some direct quotes?

How many times have you called your child she instead of he? Or he instead of she? Me: never.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/video/keir-starmer/video-3097315/Video-Sir-Keir-Starmer-mixes-childrens-genders-Sky-News-interview.html

Starmer says in the interview he has a boy that is fifteen, and a boy that is thirteen. He makes no effort to correct his ‘mistake’

Sports are different, and are being dealt with by each sports governing body. I am actually part of a group for my children's sports governing body on how to make it fair for amateur sport, not just high level. (I do actually go about trying to make positive change rather than just bitching on the internet).

But, Sports aren't law. Competing in sport isn't a right. I have lost no actual rights.

What hapens when a transman, who for all intents and purposes looks and acts like a man, uses the womens toilets? What happens when a butch woman gets attacked for using the womens toilets (which is happening). Yet, there has been no increase in women being attacked in 'women only' spaces.

Women are at risk from a small subset of men. Awful, hideous men. A transwoman is at much MUCH greater risk from men. Forcing a transwoman to use mens toilets would put them at very high risk of violence.

" a rape crisis center to find it full of men with beards saying they are women"

That is UTTERLY ridiculous hyperbole.

I don't think invading the privacy of a child is okay.
We don't need to talk about the child: Starmer is quite clear that he is totally unclear on sex and gender. That's the important point.

You're a better parent than me if you've never made mistakes like that.

You may not be aware of the current case relating to Brighton Rape Crisis centre survivors network then.

It isn't actually.
A freaked out rape victim could look at one clean-shaven xy person and perceive a room full of hirsute predatory xy people.
Trauma messes with the mind.

It is almost as if he is unaware of Jo Swinson.

Labour could put this all to bed very easily but they don't want too. If only we had PR and alternative parties could come up and protect the public from these mind viruses that take over the political class apparently regularly.

Agreed. The family members of public figures should be left alone and not dragged out for discussion and speculation. Particularly children.

I suppose the flip side of that is, public figures, particularly politicians who will be in a position of power over the rest of us, should not be dragging the rest of us into their family dynamics.