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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Normalising buying babies

183 replies

HarrietSpying · 21/04/2024 08:28

I’ve been randomly following a bloke on Instagram with a wife who’s into tablescaping 🙄 No idea how or why I started following him, possibly due to his foodie posts. Anyway recent posts revealed a new baby, with mention of the ‘person’ who gave birth. His wife’s page reveals her ‘greed’ at wanting another baby - with other photos showing three other children - so they resorted to, what is in my mind, buying a baby. Obviously the birth of a baby is lovely news but is it so normal now to procure one from a ‘surrogate’ (awful term) that nobody really bats an eyelid. Just find it so depressing. Also very aware that there may be some jealousy on my part. Cancer meant I could only ever have one baby and I’d have loved a big family. But surrogacy never ever an option for me for ethical reasons.

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TempestTost · 28/04/2024 02:38

Delphinium20 · 25/04/2024 03:41

So, following that logic, if no women volunteer, the state would be required to demand women give their bodies in fulfillment of that right.

Like the draft. Instead of going to war, you go to IVF clinics.

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Possibly. Though maybe it would be seen more like blood donation, or even organ donation. Something people ought to do but they can't be forced by law. Realistically what you might see is a lot of moral pressure, like with organ donation in popular culture.

TempestTost · 28/04/2024 02:41

Helleofabore · 25/04/2024 09:14

I, too, have found that the positioning of surrogacy as a means for some people to obtain ‘fertility equity’ ie. to have a family on demand and tailored to their demand, to be a concern.

Fertility Equality gets thrown around falsely in my opinion. Fertility equality would be more aligned with giving each person the ability to use their own reproductive organs to produce healthy gametes to contribute to a family. I don’t believe it should be to give one human the use of another human’s body to gestate that family in a surrogacy arrangement. Use of a surrogacy arrangement is ‘equity’ to me, yet it is label equality by some people.

And considering the potential price of making that accommodation to achieve ‘equity’ is so high, it has to be said that sometimes an equitable solution is not possible.

This is an ideology, though, that has in differernt circumstances proposed that because some non-white groups don't perform as well on certain kinds of tests, the standards should be changed. Even when they seem kind of important.

I think there is an underlying belief that equity is in fact concretely achievable in every case.

Kneidlach · 28/04/2024 10:56

Oh gawd, I just looked at the tablescaper and husband’s instagrams. It’s just so tone deaf - they’re basically having a family holiday in LA, lots of seaside visits, theme parks etc, interspersed with occasional photos of the newborn.

Yet, not too many miles away (but presumably not in Malibu🤔) an unphotographed, unnamed woman is recovering from giving birth to another human, and then being separated from her newborn.

yesmen · 28/04/2024 18:45

MMmomDD · 23/04/2024 20:52

@sailyclose

Organ donation is not the same. We don’t grow new organs. If one chooses to donate an egg; or carry someone else’s foetus to birth does not leave them without a vital part of their body.
Same goes to selling of existing children.

Morality is a relative, not an absolute concept. And it evolves we progress. Very few things are absolute.

For me - choice is important.
If I could and wanted to help a friend, a relative struggling with carrying a pregnancy - I do not agree that ‘morality police’ should be able to tell me i can not do it.
If i wanted to donate my eggs - it is My choice.
And - as some one said upthread - if i wanted to charge for sex - again MY choice.

To me - this is a definition of respecting women and their choices. Their - being important here. And recognising that people can have different opinions.

But here we have a group of women who seem to want to control how other women think and feel. And even down to the words we use describing our pregnancies.
Doing exactly what men used to do to us.

Personally - i understand that other people have opinions about surrogacy and egg donations. I don’t think they are wrong - they have a right to have their opinion.
Sadly - like with all divisive topics there is no real discussion - of facts or anything objective. Just repeated shouting and indignation..

Indicative of how we are as a society, really.

I do t see anyone shouting here though?

There is a very reasoned back and forth with stylist differences but no shouting that I see.

I find the whole discussion excellent with great points on both sides.

I agree choice is important. With that in mind if that lovely dd of yours came home and said she was skipping uni and going into sex work would accept or try to dissuade her? Would you set her up in the spare bedroom and ask dh to bring a gang back after pub?

Original poster
HarrietSpying · 28/04/2024 20:33

Kneidlach · 28/04/2024 10:56

Oh gawd, I just looked at the tablescaper and husband’s instagrams. It’s just so tone deaf - they’re basically having a family holiday in LA, lots of seaside visits, theme parks etc, interspersed with occasional photos of the newborn.

Yet, not too many miles away (but presumably not in Malibu🤔) an unphotographed, unnamed woman is recovering from giving birth to another human, and then being separated from her newborn.

They are an abomination. Tone deaf, selfish, entitled and arrogant. I was out last night and it turns out my friend knows the pair of them. Despite the fawning on Instagram, at least some of their circle is (privately) appalled.

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Kneidlach · 28/04/2024 21:35

I was out last night and it turns out my friend knows the pair of them. Despite the fawning on Instagram, at least some of their circle is (privately) appalled.

That’s actually reassuring in a way. Looking at their friends comments on Instagram did make me despair a bit. But I guess it makes sense that any dissent from friends would be in private rather than done publicly.

She in particular seems so invested in creating a perfect looking aesthetic and image. I imagine any hint of public dissent from a friend on IG would lead to instantly being blocked and kicked out of the friendship group!

MsLuxLisbon · 28/04/2024 21:57

I just did some googling and I am afraid my first, catty thought was '38!? And the bloody rest love'.

Original poster
HarrietSpying · 28/04/2024 22:11

MsLuxLisbon · 28/04/2024 21:57

I just did some googling and I am afraid my first, catty thought was '38!? And the bloody rest love'.

Totally agree. She’s got that gaunt posho look going on. Bonus of buying a baby: no impact on one’s skinny frame. 🙄

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