HIGNFY dipping a toe in

[Theeyeballsinthesky]

Having a dig at Stoke hospitals 21 genders flag and the Scottish police for only arresting people on line

I mean it’s only taken several years

Marxist???

Lol what's Marxist about it?

If nothing else it's a clear signal who is worth listening to in a debate. Another bear trap for the dim and the chance to deploy energy somewhere more worthwhile.

I can just imagine Marx himself hearing about gender ideology for the first time. "You what now? The material conditions of your existence are trumped by what now? An inner sense of your own identity?? <backs slowly away>

If anything, Marx could have framed the gender debate in terms of capital and labour and suggested that the workers (women) should own the means of production (women again ?).

I say could, because I suspect Marx was far from interested in womens rights and was quite able to ignore their subjugation even as he was freeing the masses. He was a man after all.

And I have read Das Kapital. Although it may surprise some it was a long time ago - when the Soviet embassy used to put fresh flowers on his grave daily.

Gender ideology is capitalism and individualism on steroids.

“trans Marxism understands the oppression of trans people as not just the result of individual people’s prejudice, but as a part of capitalist exploitation”

Look, I didn’t say it makes sense! What does with trans ideology? Though they do seem keen on the dismantling of societal structures. I’m no expert on political philosophy or Marxism before you leap down my throat, but for anyone wanting to go down the rabbit hole it is there for you to explore…

But that's just using 'Marxism' as a trendy buzzword, as it's so often used these days, to mean whatever the person would like it to mean. A lot of people say this, that or the other is 'Marxist', to mean variously 'good' or 'bad' and it's just silly. You don't have to take these assertions at face value.

The foundation of Marxism is materialism. Gender ideology could not be further removed from materialism since it posits that a person's subjective internal feelings determine their true self and override observable reality. The idea of 'identifying as' something that you materially are not is directly opposed to the absolute basics of Marxism.

I’m sure you are right Esgaroth. In the traditional sense of course, without the doublethink which is de rigueur these days!

A little while ago, I stumbled upon a talk given by James Lindsay. I don't know much about him and his views, but one thing in this short talk stood out for me. It was about the seizing of the means of production, which most people (including me) thinks about in terms of factories and farms, and so on. But he focused on the idea of the means of production of people as social beings. He linked Marx to Mao and some of the means of producing the right kind of people.

I'd be interested in other people's views on what he said:

“The idea of 'identifying as' something that you materially are not is directly opposed to the absolute basics of Marxism”… laws of nature.
Oops! Not sure they play by the same rules!
If i identify as a Marxist, am I a Marxist? Who owns the definition of Marxism? Who decides who is or isn’t? The interpretation of Marxism may well have been mangled to include giant leaps of logic while you weren’t looking.

Apologies for the derail into Marxism… as you were!

Well it’s certainly clear that ideology is being forced on us, and freedom of speech curtailed. It’s very much a threat and leaves us vulnerable to bad actors. Our kids are being taught to disbelieve their own eyes and ears which is the 1984 playbook. Something’s up and things are not as they were.

Did anyone see last night's episode?

Alex Horne was hosting and made a quip about the "woke" use of preferred pronouns. All 4 panelists were chuckling away... including Carol Vorderman.

Quite the surprise.

I've never been a fan of the word "woke" (everyone has their own views on what's sensible/OTT, so I don't think it's a helpful word as it creates a bucket with a label) but on this particular occasion, I couldn't have been more delighted to hear it used.

The only reason it claims to be aligned with Marx is because left wing institutions and morality is far easier to capture and control than the right - people are far more willing to over-ride their common sense, instincts and judgement ‘for the greater good’, and police others to do the same, if they are communitarians rather than individualists.

There is "capitalist exploitation"...by pharma companies and the doctors (such as the wibberly-wobberlies) who promote their wares, surgeons who profit from providing mutilating surgery, charities whose income stream is reliant upon promoting the trans circus, etc.

That's an interesting point, well made. Food for thought