Debate happening in House of Commons: Victoria Atkins on fire

[BonfireLady]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/15/rishi-sunak-david-cameron-downing-street-general-election/

Edit to say this was about the Independent newspaper article headline mentioned previously. The thread is moving too fast for this to make sense without this edit!

The headline heavily implies they died because they were ‘trans’. This is against The Samaritans guidelines on headlines. The article itself is not great but better. I wish newspapers would show a duty of care. Suicide reporting needs to be so careful as to not create a contagion effect. Lots of people just skim headlines.

’The deaths of three teens, who believed in gender ideology, exposes the state of youth mental health provision’ would be the equivalently bad headline from a GC viewpoint.

They got it wrong.

Incredibly so. And wish to deflect from that. I hope they can recognise their role in gender harm.

I found it very gratifying how dated and stuck in the groove those MPs, such as Kirsten Oswald ( "Trans Identities are valid"),Dawn Butler, Lloyd Moyle, sounded. Still clinging to the old script in the face of a major re-edit.

Ben Bradshaw MP seems not to care about children, or about women and girls at all...he's more concerned about the judge who identifies as a woman being told their identity is an ideology ( " Transphobic hate crime").

You could see the cogs turning in the face of Annalise Dodds - how is she going to spin this now? Angela Eagle remarkably silent, although she may have been one of the hecklers.

Victoria Aitken did well not to fall into using the term 'trans child' as several opposition MPs had done; instead focussing on "distressed children" with a variety of mental health "conditions".

The whole concept of the trans child needs to be very publicly de-constructed.

Noticed this is a TRA free thread, expect they were lurking mind!!!

The strength of the opposition is going to be important. We need people such as Kemi Badenoch, Miriam Cates and Victoria Aitkin to keep their seats.

Archive of the Telegraph link in the OP. On the article, scroll down to the live reporting post made at 5.27pm for the first post about the debate. https://archive.ph/TCoIL

This is such a great thread. Victoria Atkins was raging but so articulate, absolutely on fire. Delicious to see she didn’t let Lloyd Russell Moyle or Wes Streeting off the hook. NoDebate is well and truly over, and unscientific ideology will no longer be allowed to influence children’s healthcare.

There’s still a long way to go. If the likes of the Guardian and BBC continue to ignore these very real issues with gender ideology, then the people who only get their news from those sources are not going to wake up to the full extent of the batshittery.

If TWAW and TMAM then that also means Trans Boys are Boys and Trans Girls are Girls. Funny how nobody ever chants those mantras isn’t it? Almost like they know that it is morally bankrupt to be pushing the notion that children who are questioning their gender are literally the opposite sex and need to be put on a medical - and possibly surgical - pathway.

Hopefully the battle has been won to protect the next generation of gender-confused children and to provide them with holistic healthcare that addresses all their issues.

The next step is to protect babies. Transwomen should not be helped to breastfeed. Allowing a TW to do this is more about validating the adult’s identity than what’s best for the child. Babies need nutritious milk, not goop laced with drugs. Shame on the NHS for pushing this; it needs to end now.

As for women’s rights to single-sex spaces, sports, and the ability to define ourselves as adult human females - well, it could take a long time. I sincerely hope the tide has turned. At least people can speak more openly now.

As I'm still catching up on this thread I'm reposting @PronounssheRa post so I can treat myself to the put down all over again when I get caught up!

There’s still a long way to go. If the likes of the Guardian and BBC continue to ignore these very real issues with gender ideology, then the people who only get their news from those sources are not going to wake up to the full extent of the batshittery.

Alternatively, when they do wake up to what's been going on, the very loud question is going to be 'where the fuck was the BBC?'

This really does feel like an historical turning point. I just wanted to say a huge thank you to Justine and everyone at Mumsnet who allowed this debate to go ahead. I genuinely think Mumsnet has played a huge part in allowing women to speak out about the harms being done to children. It has helped the UK to be a world leader in protecting thousands of vulnerable young people from this dangerous ideology.

Also wanted to say thanks to LangCleg. If anyone knows her in real life then I hope she knows what a massive, massive difference she made.

BonfireLady · Yesterday 20:19

Obviously it's possible/likely that not all 9000 went on to take any kind of medical intervention but until the follow-up data is examined, nobody knows the scale of the harm. And that's just the children under GIDS. There will also be many young adults in the 17/18-25 bracket whose fate will be known later when the review of adult services starts.

I'd like to know about private patient numbers, too. My friend's daughter was taken to one by her mother. A few days after she and he had agreed to arrange a psychologist and wait and see.

I agree with all of this

My son is autistic and absolutely convinced that DP and I are right wing nutjobs,DD knows it's a load of shite and gives him both barrels every time she visits.

Yes shame on the NHS for wasting time and precious resources on making children sicker. Especially as the service as a whole is collapsing. Atkins was very impressive. I hadn't really noticed her before tbh. But then I suppose she is mostly on the defensive. Being Health Secretary for the Tories must be like being sent to the Phantom Zone.

Surely if Starmer wins big he can send the loons packing? After Johnson won his 80 seat majority he was suddenly uninterested in the views of Arlene Foster for example. One can only hope.

Quoting myself to sadly add that Chris Whitty repeated the toxic on both sides trope, as well as evidently doing his best to stay out of it.

Our “impartial” broadcaster has a lot to answer for. 🤦🏻‍♀️ To think I used to love the BBC!

Gymnoob your experiences remind me of what the clinical psychologist Dorothy Rowe said about the causes of depression. She said trying to maintain beliefs which does not match the reality causes humans distress and ultimately mental illness. Dorothy Rowe’s philosophy at root was to tell the truth about the world and yourself, be brave in trying to uncover it and then face it without flinching. When confused young people going through puberty are constantly being told by those in authority their reality is false and wrong and they need to change it then it’s not surprising the amount of mental distress they experience. I also hope those organisations such as Stonewall and Mermaids, Pink news who championed this evil are vanquished for good and government institutions are defenestrated of the trans cheerleaders. My DN is now in a much better place and though still identifies as a boy has not had the medications or surgery. She is at university living in halls and seems happier in herself.

It's the Lifton-esque thought-terminating cliché of our times.

What are the next 10 words? How much due diligence have you done to establish that? Or, horror upon horror, Whitty and others, are you uncritically accepting media talking points to offer that conclusion?

To be fair, Whitty has had his hands full with COVID-19 and the recovery of the NHS but I'd rather people didn't offer any opinion than deliver the inanity of this politically 'safe' take because what's to be lost by derogating women with GC beliefs?

when they say the debate is toxic on both sides, what they neglect to mention is:
the so called toxic other side, the GC feminists, are vocal and strident in their views because you don't make change by asking nicely and making concessions. GC members of parliament and the public at large had to be vocal and critical and in a very forthright way, to shake the establishment.

You don't dismantle a cult with nicey nicey talk.

And we wouldn't be where we are today, finally dismantling this cultish ideology in our schools and cyp services, on the back of proven evidence in the Cass review, if it wasn't for GC feminists.

So was it toxic on both sides? Not really. One side was aggressive, often with physical violence, doxing and threatening women. The other side was strident with facts and biology. Hardly two toxic sides.

and Chris Witty and all those
bleating about "both sides are toxic" know this too. They know jt.

There is a long way to go and some people will never accept that they’re wrong. But, I hope that like believing that autism was caused by the MMR vaccine, such views will become less mainstream. The true believers will look increasingly like the flat earthers they are. Children will be - thank god - much safer than they have been over the last two decades.

Undoing the rest of the misogyny will be harder, especially where it affects adult women.

LRM face when VA was calling him out on his shit. He really couldn't give a fuck could he!

As Margaret Atwood once said: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.”

The only toxicity coming from gender-critical feminists was that they said things that men didn’t like.

The toxicity coming from the TRA side - well, it included literal violence, plus death threats, rape threats, doxxing, cancelling and career sabotaging.

For some unfathomable reason, women are held to a higher standard of behaviour than men. A woman uttering hurty words to explain her gender-critical beliefs is framed as being just as toxic as if she had punched someone in the face. Make it make sense.

It’s the one part of the Cass report I’m disappointed with. The “toxic debate” part should have been made more clear that it was TRAs who stopped people speaking out.