MN promoting cervical screening. Guess which word is missing

[HermioneWeasley]

It’s being promoted on MN, later on they say you’ll usually have a female nurse do it, but it’s all about PEOPLE

https://www.mumsnet.com/articles/cervical-screening

@MNHQ why are you colluding with this woman erasing nonsense?

I don't understand why transwomen aren't up in arms about NHS prostate cancer advice referring solely to "men". Where's the outrage at their non-inclusion?

Exactly. They’re not forced to share it and their push back and explanation of why they couldn’t promote it in its current format would be helpful

@OhamIreally

i just posted my theory on that

“if it was genuinely about inclusion we would see men’s health campaigns re written to refer to prostate owners, people with testicles, and the ejaculating parent in order to include trans women. And yet we never, never see this. It’s because it’s not about inclusion, the aim is to separate being a woman from being female and then womanhood is something male people can colonise. The patriarchy thanks you for your service.”

if it was genuinely about inclusion we would see men’s health campaigns re written to refer to prostate owners, people with testicles, and the ejaculating parent in order to include trans women. And yet we never, never see this. It’s because it’s not about inclusion, the aim is to separate being a woman from being female and then womanhood is something male people can colonise. The patriarchy thanks you for your service.
All about erasing women as a sex class because the men don't like it. Here is another blatant example. This time it's lesbians who aren't allowed to be women.FFS

rolls eyes

Where have you been in the many many discussions about how being intersex doesn't mean you are between sexes. Every and every intersex condition is either male or female related.

Woman is a completely appropriate word even taking intersex into consideration.

Don't you know intersex people exist?

This is an outdated term.
And many people with DSD have requested, in many occasions, that they do not want to be part of this gender ideology.
Almost all, if not all, people born with DSD have a sex assigned to them based on scientific findings, these days, iirr.

Pregnant people is not accurate. Only women can become pregnant. If you are pregnant, you are a woman. Even if you pretend you aren't. Your body is sexed, whether you like it or not, and your woman's body will fertilise an egg and grow a human if given chance.

I have no objection to "Women and transmen" - that is inclusive and accurate although pandering to a tiny minority. We don't say "Women and anorexic women" or "Women and women with depression" although there's probably way more of them.

You can go to the cervical screening page of the government website and it explains all the evidence base for HPV primary screening. Or just search Mumsnet the subject has been done to death on here.

That's not true. If your cervix is removed you are removed from the cervical screening programme
Yes if you've had a hysterectomy you may have vault smears and/or follow-up with a gynaecologist if it's deemed necessary but you are very much not part of the cervical screening population, you are ceased from recall.

Why the fuck don't people educate themselves about DSDs?
The constant use of 'intersex' is an absolute nonsense and insulting to those males and females with this condition.

Threads like this always miss the most fundamental thing that people have a right to be included and respected when it comes to healthcare, everyone does. It's a cancer screening programme and it does matter if it gets more people screened and lives saved. None of the NHS literature specifies solely people with a cervix, it says women and people with a cervix. Everyone necessary is included.

It doesn't say men though does it? 🥴 It says people. Some people may not prefer or identify with the word woman, and in a healthcare setting that's their right. To be referred to and treated in a way that makes them comfortable. As long as women are still included and referenced (and they are in all the NHS guidance no matter how much people try to whip up that they aren't) what's the problem? Why should the NHS not try and get every person with a cervix screened and prevent them dying from cancer?

Yes I've read the government website, I understand that cervical cancer is caused by HPV which is why they screen for it.
What I don't understand and can find no information on is what happens if you have cell changes caused by an HPV infection that has since cleared up.seems like they will never get picked up

Are men not people now?
"Women" is clear and accurate, everyone knows if they are a woman or not.
Not every woman knows that she has a cervix.

Calling a woman a "person with a cervix" has got nothing to do with making sure information is disseminated to the people it needs to reach, ie all women. The use of "people with a cervix" is politically motivated phrasing designed to divorce the word "woman" from our biology. Hence the absence of the equivalent euphemisms on men's health sites. No, it's not enough to be "included and referenced" in our own unique healthcare issues.

Thank you @Empowermenomore for the email address and thank you to @BeachBeerBbq for the lovely example from Cancer Research. Just how it should be done. Have emailed in.

That's not true. If your cervix is removed you are removed from the cervical screening programme**

I speak from direct experience when I say you are wrong. Whilst the medical profession may refer to the procedure as a vault smear, that is not how it is communicated to the patient.

Because the evidence doesn't show that. If you have cell changes caused by HPV, the HPV is still present and detected. You can have cell changes not caused by HPV, but that isn't in the scope of the screening programme.

Speaking from direct experience, I'm not wrong. If a medical professional ever called a vault smear a cervical smear, they're not qualified to be doing them....

Are you saying when you see the word people you read men?

By your logic some people might know they're not a woman, in their experiences and that's not really any of our business. Trans and nonbinary people are still entitled to healthcare and they may not be registered with their GP in a way that will automatically call them for screening, as it would for women. So yeah, the literature is inclusive for them to come forward for screening because it isn't just unique to people women clearly and if they're not registered with their surgery as a woman (as is their right) the literature helpfully ensures they aren't turned away. It also helps those of us working in the field to have a toolkit of language that makes those patients feel comfortable. It doesn't mean we don't still use the word women most if not all of the time.
The words woman and women haven't been erased from the literature or guidance at all

There isn't a comparable health screening programme that I can think you're referring to for men,.could you highlight one?

The missing word you say?
Well since it's all about the cervix, and we know who's got one of those, I think the missing word is India. Do I get a prize?

Don't be ridiculous. If somebody with a DSD (not the offensive "intersex") has a cervix then they're a woman. And if we eliminate sex-specific language from healthcare were back to the bad old days of the default male. Tell me how you propose to raise awareness of the sex-specific heart attack symptoms in women? Are you planning to talk about uterine heart attacks? Or in another problem area, about medication dosages appropriate for vaginal livers or metabolism?

Actually the best way would be to re-start the entire thread in Site Stuff.

"Don't you know intersex people exist? Google it. Women isn't even perfectly accurate in this context. Same with "pregnant people" which is more accurate than "pregnant women." It's not even all about gender identity. It's just plain old science."

You seem very concerned with "science", but if you REALLY were, you would know that "intersex" is an offensive and outdated term consigned to the history books. DSDs (or VSDs) are SEX SPECIFIC, in that they ONLY affect the male or female sexual pathways. For example, ONLY MEN can suffer from Klinefelter syndrome. They are still men. And women with a DSD are still female. There is no third sex, and no third gamete. Hermaphroditism does not, and has NEVER, existed in humans, because nobody on the face of the earth has ever had both sets of functioning gametes and impregnated themselves. If anything, DSDs REINFORCE AND PROVE the sexual binary, because these conditions are sex specific.

Pregnant "people" is NOT more accurate than pregnant women, since ONLY women can get pregnant.

Don't YOU know that "intersex" people account for less than 0.018% of the total population? Google it.

Honestly, when is this boring cat call of "what about intersex" going to end? It has NOTHING to do with the trans debate and EVERYTHING to do with the obfuscation and deliberate blurring of sex by the activists in order to claim that any man can be a woman if he "feels" like one. If women cannot by definition exist, then they can have no protections or boundaries. And you are playing right into their hands by chiming in with this utter claptrap.

People with DSDs do NOT appreciate being used as a get-out clause for everything trans related.
Please educate yourself more about "plain old science" because you are clearly lacking in that regard.

‘Only women have a cervix,
Only women have a womb.
It is not possible to ‘grow’ * one
Without the XX chromosome’

with reference to Mr Lammy*

to be sung to the tune of ‘What a friend we have in Jesus/ When this lousy war is over’ as you feel appropriate.

Are you saying when you see the word people you read men?

When most people see the word “people”, they think “men and women”. “People” includes people of both sexes. That’s pretty much its function in language. When talking about those people who require screening for cervical cancer, the sensible thing is to say women.