Baby Reindeer.

[GodZilah]

Am watching this on Netflix and SPOILERS...

The main dude is being stalked by a woman and has a secret relationship with a trans woman (who appears to be a RL TW)

Am only 1.5 episodes in but 2 things have stood out to me so far.

When talking about the stalker the TW says 'she's a fantasist who's fabricated an entire identity'

And then (for context the guy has joined the TW dating app under another name as he's ashamed) she says to him 'it's illegal to have sex with someone under a false identity'

Is it my GC outlook or are these statements both highly ironic coming from a TW?

[GodZilah]

Also the American TW is giving real Dylan Mulvaney vibes

[PriOn1]

Sounds fairly awful! I shall probably avoid it, so thanks for the heads up!

Still, I was hoping for something much lovelier from your title, so if anyone else opened the thread in hope of cuteness, here you go!

[GodZilah]

OK. So he's just confessed to TW that he used a different name and pretended he was a construction worker to appear more 'manly'

And TW said 'that's the craziest thing I've ever heard, you're sick in the head'

🤔


Is the producer of this show GC and hiding these statements in plain sight or what?

[MarieDeGournay]

So NOT a cute little baby reindeer thread at all...my mistake 😏
It could have been Rudolf's baby, because all Santa's reindeer were actually female, males shed their antlers before mid-December.
But it's not, it's a Netflix thing. Sigh.

[AgentProvocateur]

This is based on a true story. I’m going to give it a watch. The main character wrote it, stats in it and was the subject of a RL
female stalker for many years.

[NashvilleQueen]

I am GC but I liked this show.

The actor is also the writer and the person to whom this happened. I don't think there's any TRA agenda. It was his experience of being stalked and his previous trauma which he used as the basis for a stand up show and now Netflix have made into a series.

I also liked the TW character and thought she challenged some of my usual perceptions. She is probably the most well adjusted main character in the programme.

My frustration was with him and his response to the stalker but even that is explained in the end.

It's a dark and difficult watch but glad I persevered. Jessica Gunning is incredible.

[NashvilleQueen]

Also she was on a trans dating website so I don't think there's any suggestion she's misleading or hypocritical. Had she been on a lesbian dating site saying nothing about being a TW then I would have been more inclined to agree OP.

[GodZilah]

I was not saying it was a TRA show.

I just thought this particular sentences coming from the mouth of a man dressed as a woman were hypocritical. However they were written my rection to them was an eye roll as that person is literally using the fake identity of a woman.

I liked the show very much.

[gocompare]

I am on episode four.

It's very dark. It is a hard watch but the acting is really good.

[gocompare]

Episode just got far darker than I was expecting.

[TM1979]

I thought it was excellent. Very different to usual stuff I watch. The acting is very good. The scene when telling his dad everything was so well done. Quite sad actually.

[Ted27]

I binge watched this last night and thought it was excellent. The writer/main character had been through an extremely traumatic event and like many male victims was ashamed, confused and embarrassed by his experiences.
I thought he displayed compassion towards his stalker. The breakdown scene when it came was brutal and powerful.
I didnt see any ‘agenda’ there. The explanation of the name baby reindeer was heartbreaking.

[Swamphag]

Binged this yesterday. A couple of things stood out to me which I haven't seen mentioned.
First off the the fact that he starts identifying as bisexual. Surely this nods to the fact that he sees TW as male not as women.
The second when he doesn't kiss Terri and gets off the train, strikes me that as well as the whole "deception" thing, it's because he's conflicted about his sexuality and it feels weird to him to kiss a male (especially in public).

There's quite a few bits in the show that to me points to the lie that TWAW.

The character of Terri was virtually the only sane one. I hope the real Terri is happy with someone who accepts them for who they are and is proud to be with them. Terri was treated terribly by Donny/Richard.
Quite amusing to see a few posters in the TV Thread post saying how well Terri passes when actually Terri's jaw is like a neon sign to their sex. #staykindladies

[rabbitwoman]

I thought baby reindeer was absolutely amazing, powerful and a lot of food for thought.

The main storyline was harrowing and incredible performances. Being a mumsnet regular, of course, I have a huge amount of extra context for the TW character, but I thought it was done absolutely brilliantly.

Because there did not appear to be any GC or TRA agenda at all - just like there was no agenda regarding the black characters. But it was an important and poignant part of the storyline, an abused man struggling with his sexuality, doesn't know if he is gay or straight or how being abused has impacted that so he heads for a trans website, and finds a genuine, beautiful connection. The scenes between him and Terri were really lovely, beautifully acted.

And I liked the fact they had a trans woman playing the part, not a woman. And the fact that the trans woman passed very well. But she was never hiding her identity. Seems she was very honest about who she was from the start.

Without the breaking down of women's rights and boundaries and the mutilation of children, I would be very supportive of trans rights and would very much enjoy how a representation like Terri adds to the story. It's a shame trans rights never stopped there.....

[heathspeedwell]

It was misogynistic and had the stamp of Netflix all over it.

The main protagonist was a misogynist long before he was raped, but still he pretends that his experience with a stalker wasn't listened to by the police because he was a man. The fact is that men are far more likely to be listened to by police and twice as likely to gain a conviction.

He was clearly a repressed gay man and that's why he treated his girlfriend so badly but this is barely explored in the narrative. It's all about him being a victim even though his actions put his girlfriend, her mum and his transwoman friend in danger.

In years to come people will look back on it and be amazed that people now are celebrating his 'honesty'.

[Perfectlystill]

The TW's tits were absolutely ridiculous, jutting out just below their chin.

I try to think that TW are fine and not pervs with an overtly sexualised view of women, but when they give themselves tits like a blow up doll it does make you wonder.

[JoandArcFeminist]

I really liked the show, and also agree with the irony of some of Teri's lines! BUT one thing did stick out to me- compared to some of the other characters, Teri is absolutely squeaky clean!! even Keely has a couple lines where she shows herself up a bit.

Turns out the show had some form of 'trans' sensitivity reader to help with writing Teri...!

I would have been very interested to see the original stage production and how Gadd wrote Teri if things were a bit truer to his experience

[Instantcustard]

Quite amusing to see a few posters in the TV Thread post saying how well Terri passes when actually Terri's jaw is like a neon sign to their sex.
Really? I liked Terri and thought the character was really interesting but no way would anyone confuse their sex.

[Scotcheggz]

I presumed Terri was a woman- her voice sounded female. I’m shocked that she was played by a tw

[MoleAtTheCounter]

Lots of men will think Nava Mau (who played Teri) 'passes'. Lots of people will think that is a typical TW. They will be very disappointed if they go on dating websites looking for their own Nava.

[GoldThumb]

@rabbitwoman

I thought baby reindeer was absolutely amazing, powerful and a lot of food for thought.

The main storyline was harrowing and incredible performances. Being a mumsnet regular, of course, I have a huge amount of extra context for the TW character, but I thought it was done absolutely brilliantly.

Because there did not appear to be any GC or TRA agenda at all - just like there was no agenda regarding the black characters. But it was an important and poignant part of the storyline, an abused man struggling with his sexuality, doesn't know if he is gay or straight or how being abused has impacted that so he heads for a trans website, and finds a genuine, beautiful connection. The scenes between him and Terri were really lovely, beautifully acted.

And I liked the fact they had a trans woman playing the part, not a woman. And the fact that the trans woman passed very well. But she was never hiding her identity. Seems she was very honest about who she was from the start.

Without the breaking down of women's rights and boundaries and the mutilation of children, I would be very supportive of trans rights and would very much enjoy how a representation like Terri adds to the story. It's a shame trans rights never stopped there.....

This is how I feel.

I thought it was really well done, and thought the relationship with Teri, and his internal struggle with it, was interesting.

I was really rooting for Teri, to get rid, thinking ‘you deserve much better than him’.

And it reinforced, to me, that issues I have with the trans agenda is not based in transphobia, which is what people accuse GC people of. I have no problem with people living their lives how they want.

But the dismantling of women’s rights, and the effect of transing children, I can’t accept.
The ‘suck my lady Cock’ tranche of the movement really have ruined it, and really hurt what I would call ‘old school transsexuals’ as well.

Years ago I would have had no issue sharing spaces with someone like Teri, but now, no.

[GoldThumb]

@Instantcustard

Quite amusing to see a few posters in the TV Thread post saying how well Terri passes when actually Terri's jaw is like a neon sign to their sex.
Really? I liked Terri and thought the character was really interesting but no way would anyone confuse their sex.

I think this is interesting as well. Women seem to be able to tell a lot better than men.

Presumably because women are more alert of the threats of men, from a young age? And this has made us more vigilant?
To me, the actor was very obviously a TW.

I wonder if this is why certain men are so ‘TWAW’ in the literal sense.

That they actually can’t tell the difference, and so think that women must be lying when we say we can?

[valensiwalensi]

Have an actual day off

[heathspeedwell]

@JoandArcFeminist that's a really good point about the trans sensitivity reader. So much is made about how kind Teri is, any yet the kindness of Gadd's girlfriend and her mum is glossed over.

I also feel quite angry that Gadd made a big deal about how he wanted to protect the mentally ill Martha character that he had a co-dependant relationship with. He claimed that he changed lots of details so she wouldn't be recognisable. Turns out he didn't bother to change much at all and now she's getting death threats. Lots of the public hate her and think that she really did go to prison for stalking him.

Meanwhile Gadd is a millionaire, he has the fame that he would have done anything to achieve. And Gadd's rich, powerful rapist doesn't appear to have had any death threats either. Just the vulnerable woman. Funny that.

[AIstolemylunch]

I thought it was interesting that his abuse made him question his sexuality, which apparently happens a lot which male on male sexual abuse, so he saw the trans website as a halfway house before actually dating gay men. The trans actor was clearly trans and didn't pass at all but seemed like a sympathetic character, though like a PP, I doubt he bears much resemblance to the actual trans woman RG dated. It felt very cartoony and fake to me, especially the sex scenes. I really doubt there are many post op trans women having standard missionary position sex.