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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

A vindication of British feminists

72 replies

ArabellaScott · 11/04/2024 17:17

https://alexmassie.substack.com/p/the-vindication-of-britains-feminists

I want to tip my hat to every woman who has signed petitions, attended demos, written letters, responded to consultations, had patient conversations, had enraged conversations, gardened, and kept things moving forward.

Women won't wheesht, and especially not when it comes to the wellbeing of children.

The Vindication of Britain's Feminists

The Cass Review into the treatment of gender-questioning children is devastating. The truth was always there to be seen: many chose not to see it.

https://alexmassie.substack.com/p/the-vindication-of-britains-feminists

OP posts:
DumpsterBaby · 11/04/2024 17:58

Here here!

joan12 · 11/04/2024 18:04

I'm afraid I think this is a very unhelpful way of looking at this situation. It continues a 'them' and 'us' narrative. Cass's very clear, research and evidence driven report moves us out of this sphere and into a different one. Enjoy your satisfaction by all means of you must but if you do it publicly you will risk a backlash. Personally, I feel sad for everyone involved who was lead up a blind alley, not given proper, evidence based treatment and may now be facing potential life long consequences as a result of 'treatment' that never should have been allowed. Just let change happen, it is for the good of everyone including these vulnerable young people.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/04/2024 18:32

joan12 · 11/04/2024 18:04

I'm afraid I think this is a very unhelpful way of looking at this situation. It continues a 'them' and 'us' narrative. Cass's very clear, research and evidence driven report moves us out of this sphere and into a different one. Enjoy your satisfaction by all means of you must but if you do it publicly you will risk a backlash. Personally, I feel sad for everyone involved who was lead up a blind alley, not given proper, evidence based treatment and may now be facing potential life long consequences as a result of 'treatment' that never should have been allowed. Just let change happen, it is for the good of everyone including these vulnerable young people.

I think it's asking a lot to expect women (and some men) to be silent when we look at the wreckage of so many women's lives, careers, reputations and peace of mind, the devastation on too many families and the catastrophe of so many children's wrecked futures .
It was only because of a lot of fierce, courageous feminists that Cass was even initiated. If it had been left to the establishment, this unethical medical experimentation would be continuing, Mermaids, Stonewall etc would be multi million ££ organisations and the medical profession would be dishing out puberty blockers to younger and younger children.

We need to acknowledge and celebrate the courage of all those who fought this well funded, dangerous to children ideology, not meekly return to our duties.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/04/2024 18:34

And that's a great article from another Times journalist who has relentlessly exposed this scandal of epic proportions.

KellieJaysLapdog · 11/04/2024 18:36

joan12 · 11/04/2024 18:04

I'm afraid I think this is a very unhelpful way of looking at this situation. It continues a 'them' and 'us' narrative. Cass's very clear, research and evidence driven report moves us out of this sphere and into a different one. Enjoy your satisfaction by all means of you must but if you do it publicly you will risk a backlash. Personally, I feel sad for everyone involved who was lead up a blind alley, not given proper, evidence based treatment and may now be facing potential life long consequences as a result of 'treatment' that never should have been allowed. Just let change happen, it is for the good of everyone including these vulnerable young people.

It’s hard to care about a potential public backlash when your female teenager wants a cosmetic mastectomy and an unnecessary hysterectomy.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/04/2024 18:42

joan12 · 11/04/2024 18:04

I'm afraid I think this is a very unhelpful way of looking at this situation. It continues a 'them' and 'us' narrative. Cass's very clear, research and evidence driven report moves us out of this sphere and into a different one. Enjoy your satisfaction by all means of you must but if you do it publicly you will risk a backlash. Personally, I feel sad for everyone involved who was lead up a blind alley, not given proper, evidence based treatment and may now be facing potential life long consequences as a result of 'treatment' that never should have been allowed. Just let change happen, it is for the good of everyone including these vulnerable young people.

you know it’s only the second day and I’m beyond fucked off with the narrative that we should all just be quiet now with a side order of ‘you’re all still awful even though you were right’

Just let change happen? There would be no fucking change if it wasn’t for the pushback in a very large part orchestrated by and through the women here

and I guarantee if we did all shut up now that change absolutely would not happen

Otter2 · 11/04/2024 18:43

Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/04/2024 18:42

you know it’s only the second day and I’m beyond fucked off with the narrative that we should all just be quiet now with a side order of ‘you’re all still awful even though you were right’

Just let change happen? There would be no fucking change if it wasn’t for the pushback in a very large part orchestrated by and through the women here

and I guarantee if we did all shut up now that change absolutely would not happen

Absolutely this.

KellieJaysLapdog · 11/04/2024 18:43

I truly don’t give a shit if in 50 years time Mumsnet feminists are seen as the ‘bad guys’ - just stop sterilising gay and autistic kids and give women our single sex spaces back!

DialSquare · 11/04/2024 18:48

I actually think the backlash will be coming from the general public who were unaware until now and it's not going to be against the women who have been shouting about it for years, it will be against the people/organisations who instigated/allowed it to happen.

JanesLittleGirl · 11/04/2024 18:50

joan12 · 11/04/2024 18:04

I'm afraid I think this is a very unhelpful way of looking at this situation. It continues a 'them' and 'us' narrative. Cass's very clear, research and evidence driven report moves us out of this sphere and into a different one. Enjoy your satisfaction by all means of you must but if you do it publicly you will risk a backlash. Personally, I feel sad for everyone involved who was lead up a blind alley, not given proper, evidence based treatment and may now be facing potential life long consequences as a result of 'treatment' that never should have been allowed. Just let change happen, it is for the good of everyone including these vulnerable young people.

Try reading some of the heartbreaking posts on this forum from mothers who have fought and lost against this vile ideology and the practicioners who displayed not one moment of introspection and now have irreparably damaged children and then post again.

heldinadream · 11/04/2024 18:52

Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/04/2024 18:42

you know it’s only the second day and I’m beyond fucked off with the narrative that we should all just be quiet now with a side order of ‘you’re all still awful even though you were right’

Just let change happen? There would be no fucking change if it wasn’t for the pushback in a very large part orchestrated by and through the women here

and I guarantee if we did all shut up now that change absolutely would not happen

This times a motherfucking million.
STOP being nice. Hard as it is. Let's all stop with the nice, which has hitherto got us the sum total of nowhere.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/04/2024 18:53

DialSquare · 11/04/2024 18:48

I actually think the backlash will be coming from the general public who were unaware until now and it's not going to be against the women who have been shouting about it for years, it will be against the people/organisations who instigated/allowed it to happen.

What a good point - a quick read of the comments under any of the articles in the Times, Telegraph in the last 2 days shows it's transactivists and the captured professions being held responsible. The comments under this article about Keira were really heartwarming - nobody was telling her to be quiet:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/10/keira-bell-detransitioner-cass-review-tavistock-clinic/

Keira Bell: ‘Every time I look in the mirror it’s a reminder of what happened at the Tavistock’

The scandal-hit clinic’s most prominent patient has also been its most outspoken – and says the anger will always be there

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/10/keira-bell-detransitioner-cass-review-tavistock-clinic

joan12 · 11/04/2024 21:24

Ok, ok I hear ya ..and believe me, I do get it, more than you might imagine both professionally and personally. Still, the original whistleblower Susan Evans is female but Marcus Evans and David Bell are extremely brave, deeply intelligent and thoughtful clinicians who have put these young people front and centre throughout despite the cost to themselves, personally and professionally. I actually have no idea how they survived what they went through and how they managed to continue to communicate so calmly and thoughtfully. I think we can all agree it has been an unprecedented, horrific chapter.

joan12 · 11/04/2024 21:29

I also just remembered that the original senior person at the Tavistock who brought this travesty to my attention back in 20(?)10 was also male, but also a deeply thoughtful human being who was utterly horrified at what was going on in GIDS. They had so much funding they eclipsed the other departments, including the brilliant adolescent team, and the Tavistock ethos itself, which has, with the exception of this, been to look holistically at the child/yp.

Helleofabore · 11/04/2024 21:35

So women cannot have anything centring them?

I see.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 11/04/2024 21:41

joan12 · 11/04/2024 21:24

Ok, ok I hear ya ..and believe me, I do get it, more than you might imagine both professionally and personally. Still, the original whistleblower Susan Evans is female but Marcus Evans and David Bell are extremely brave, deeply intelligent and thoughtful clinicians who have put these young people front and centre throughout despite the cost to themselves, personally and professionally. I actually have no idea how they survived what they went through and how they managed to continue to communicate so calmly and thoughtfully. I think we can all agree it has been an unprecedented, horrific chapter.

I get how uncomfortable the fury and anger can be - I sometimes have to fight against decades of female socialisation. But it's so important that we're free to both celebrate this "victory" and to rage against the forces that are trying to deny Cass, twist all this to make it seem like an "attack" on the vulnerable rather than putting right a terrible wrong that's being inflicted on children.

SidewaysOtter · 11/04/2024 21:43

Theeyeballsinthesky · 11/04/2024 18:42

you know it’s only the second day and I’m beyond fucked off with the narrative that we should all just be quiet now with a side order of ‘you’re all still awful even though you were right’

Just let change happen? There would be no fucking change if it wasn’t for the pushback in a very large part orchestrated by and through the women here

and I guarantee if we did all shut up now that change absolutely would not happen

Hell, yes.

I haven’t had an inch of what JKR, KJK, Kathleen Stock, Jo Phoenix et al have suffered, and yet even I - a lowly, run of the mill, grass-roots women’s rights campaigner - have been ostracised, criticised, called a Nazi, a fascist, a TERF, a transphobe and run the gauntlet of TRAs waving pictures of fucking GUNS.

“Just let change happen”? Fuck that. So, so many women have fought for this at tremendous personal cost and we will not shut up now. We are knee-deep in “We fucking TOLD YOU SO” territory and we will have that heard loud and clear.

pickledandpuzzled · 11/04/2024 21:49

Actually I don’t think we are anything like far enough along to gracefully bow out having made our point.

This is only one battle- though an important one. We will stop transing children. Yippee.

We still have women’s spaces to reclaim.

pickledandpuzzled · 11/04/2024 21:50

Therefore we need to keep our anger high to fuel the rest of the battle. (Was what I was leading up to 🤣)

PatatiPatatras · 11/04/2024 21:55

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KellieJaysLapdog · 11/04/2024 22:09

There are loads of great blokes involved in various facets of GC activism and not a single one of those great blokes will be pissed off at feminists celebrating feminist achievement thus far.

EasternStandard · 11/04/2024 22:12

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Yep although some have been hurling abuse, threats or just stop narrative the whole time

Hindering any change

Hopefully they can readjust thinking. Great to see the Cass review

Notaflippinclue · 11/04/2024 22:22

Don't just think this is all going away now - keep shouting from the rooftops - join the POW

Crankywiddershins · 11/04/2024 22:23

joan12 · 11/04/2024 21:29

I also just remembered that the original senior person at the Tavistock who brought this travesty to my attention back in 20(?)10 was also male, but also a deeply thoughtful human being who was utterly horrified at what was going on in GIDS. They had so much funding they eclipsed the other departments, including the brilliant adolescent team, and the Tavistock ethos itself, which has, with the exception of this, been to look holistically at the child/yp.

IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MEN, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE MEN, MEN MEN MEN.
shut up women let's celebrate the men.

SidewaysOtter · 11/04/2024 22:26

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If I could “thank” this post more than once, I would.