Labour infighting over trans issues reignited by Cass Review

[IwantToRetire]

But Rosie Duffield, a Labour MP placed under investigation by the party last year for campaigning against gender ideology, pointed out that women who had exposed the scandal had been “blanked, sidelined and dismissed” by male leaders simply for speaking up.

And feminist Julie Bindel demanded an apology from Mr Streeting for failing to support her gender-critical views when he was president of the National Union of Students.

In reply to Ms Bindel’s accusation, Mr Streeting replied: “From memory (16 years on, so correct me if I’m wrong!) I replied to confirm that you weren’t on NUS’ no platform policy and as this was in relation to a motion passed by the autonomous women’s campaign I was not empowered to overturn it (not least as a male president!).”

This prompted Ms Duffield to retweet the (Les Streeting) statement, with the message: “To the many women blanked, sidelined, dismissed by male leaders when speaking up and exposing this for years.”

And Ms Bindel wrote: “Glad to see you are now openly critical of the gender ideology that led to the atrocities against children outlined in the Cass report.

“I am open to accepting an apology from you. In 2008, when you were NUS president, I was no-platformed alongside five fascist groups for ‘transphobia’.

“I contacted you and asked for your help. You gave none. I asked you to condemn those that had orchestrated the no-platforming, and you refused.

“Have you any idea of the reputational damage this caused me? How it gave others permission to no-platform, denounce and defame me?
“How it meant that I could be slandered by other organisations, and so many, many universities around the UK and elsewhere? If this sounds bitter then good, because I am.”

To this message, Ms Duffield said: “Thank you for leading us all here Julie. Without you, most of us wouldn’t have had a clue what had been happening to children who were far too young to have the critical faculties or agency to consent.”

Extracts not full article in Telegraph https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/10/labour-infighting-over-trans-issues-reignited-cass-review/

Also at https://archive.ph/IfNp8

Earlier thread about Wes Streeting https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5047018-wes-streeting-labour-shadow-health-secretary-pledges-support-for-the-cass-reviews-evidence-led-recommendations-and-our-determination-to-put-childrens-health-and-wellbeing-above-the-political-fray

She is so fucking stupid but I am glad that at least she is saying what she thinks - her constituents need to listen.

Whether it's a problem or not depends on what you think transphobia is.

I've seen far too many people recently suggesting that not believing trans women are women is transphobia.

That would make almost the entire population transphobic and the word essentially meaningless.

This hatred is spread by the politicians and the powerful – just think of Rishi Sunak's recent transphobic jibe at PMQs while Brianna Ghey's mother was in Parliament

What Sunak said was NOT transphobic and I do not think that he is a 'transphobe'. She needs to look a bit closer to home for hateful shit being spread by politicians - Keir Starmer is very definitely a misogynist with his 1% ladycock nonsense.

What did Sunak say about Brianna Ghey?

Nothing. He made a jibe at Starmer durning PMQs in relation to gender ideology whilst Ghey's mother was in the building (not in the room as that MP is claiming).

It's all making hay out of 2nd hand offence.

He didn't even mention Brianna Ghey. Here:

Check out Starmer's terrible acting!

The point about Sultana is that is the issue of the day is the Cass Review, and she didn't want to talk about it, other than as a peg on which to hang her regularly trotted out complaints about 'transphobia', which as far as she's concerned, is the only important issue here.

Come to think of it, you could make an analogy with posters who go from thread to thread on MN, churning out the same old, same old! 😛

Absolutely agree. Tedious and predictable.

Just picked this last post to quote, but this is a reply to everyone who quoted my previous post.

As well as saying "gender identity" doesn't exist, there seems to be a similar move to say "transphobia" doesn't exist, and that's why people don't like the tweet.

I think Brianna Ghey is a good example of what the tweet is about. That poor child did not leave the house very much and clearly had some major MH issues going on. They clearly needed some specialist medical support. And I can imagine for children like that, the tone of the debate and the resulting fear about what people might think of them will be a factor in them engaging in society etc. Which conversely is more likely to entrench their feelings of being different/trans, not less.

That's before you even get to the fact that Brianna's gender was a factor in her murder. Thus demonstrating that even if rare, transphobia is real and dangerous.

I can understand why women are concerned by the tweet, given the history and the ridiculously wide definition of "transphobia", as you say. But in that particular case I don't think her tweet was particularly controversial. It just (again) shows the polarisation that Cass was talking about, that people assume ill intent in the tweet.

Maybe share something that shows the whole exchange:

I found it extremely distasteful and tone deaf of Sunak to make that comment. No "second hand offence" about it. Sunak should be clever enough to moderate his comments depending on the circumstances. It was very poorly judged I thought.

Two possibilities. She's confused. Or, much more likely, she is fully captured, and thinks that the Review is a transphobic attempt to genocide trans kids by stopping them from getting PBs/cross-sex hormones. Make no mistake: this is what TRAs are thinking, which is why they are pissed off with Stonewall's mealy-mouthed reaction.

I'm going to go back to this misogyny point, because posters keep saying it. Upthread someone said Starmer was an extreme misogynist.

Misogyny means hatred of women. Andrew Tate is an extreme misogynist. Munroe Bergdorf is an extreme misogynist.

Misogyny is the wrong word to use for someone saying 99.9% of women don't have penises. Because that is not about "hating women" as there is nothing inherently bad about men or penises, and it's not actually making any negative statement about biological women. By saying it is misogyny, you are diluting the meaning in an identical way to the TRA who says that TWANW is transphobia.

He's wrong and that's fine to call out, but its not misogyny.

I don't think people here are suggesting that transphobia doesn't exist, more that the definition of transphobia has been broadened to the point of meaninglessness, leaving no word for actual transphobia. (What other words does this remind us of?)

And unfortunately, I think we were in a place where trans people were accepted and treated pretty well by society, but they are now going to find some people rather less friendly, precisely because we've all had this stuff rammed down our throats for the last decade and been labelled transphobic for not believing humans can change sex.

The whole thing is just spectacularly unhelpful to trans people as well as other vulnerable groups.

Regarding Brianna Ghey, the police were unable to establish that her murder was motivated by transphobia.

100% agree. It is awful for everyone.

The post is controversial because Zarah Sultana demonstrably can't be trusted to define transphobia. The comment about tackling transphobia could potentially be a valid point if made by someone who isn't trotting out that UN bollocks in the same post, sure.

One thing I find surprising about people like Zarah Sultana is that a woman from a Muslim background doesn't care more about single sex spaces.

Also, is anyone else frequently shocked by how young some MPs are these days?

Maybe she's not religious? Muslims are about as much of a hive mind as Christians and the UK is fairly secular.

Yes, even if she isn’t bothered herself she must surely see how limiting a lack of single sex spaces and services are for other people’s Muslim women and girls?

Agree with @MissScarletInTheBallroom

But also, @AdamRyan, it sounds as if you agree that Brianna Ghey would have been better placed if it was more acknowledged that her gender dysphoria was something that should mean that she was expected to be treated with sympathy as a symptom of fragility and confusion whilst still working things out.

Unfortunately, instead, Brianna was surrounded by a culture obsessed with adultifying these kids - what a pressure to have to label yourself, to be decided on this stuff, to feel the need to badge yourself as a representive (as she did online). Those of us who have been concerned about this are still likely to be badged transphobic - there is a lot of resistance to the idea that trans may signify distress from the adult community, who want it to be seen as a strong empowered decision at all times.

That's the contradiction so far - everyone on the TRA side seems to be telling young people that they are part of a super oppressed class of people who are continually victimised but that they should feel empowered and in control of their decision to join this community at all times. Wouldn't anyone feel quite anxious about this messaging too?

Even aside from any transphobia Brianna actually encountered in her life, it's a tough place to be in. Particularly also someone who spent many hours marketing herself online in make up tutorials to pass as female.

It's a totally impossible dream to sell to a young teenager. Pointing this out is not transphobic, it is compassionate.

Holy shit, that’s a wafer thin majority’

the definition of transphobia is surely that anything, at all, other than hosannas to "TWAW" is transphobic. The increase in "hate crime" is most likely an out break of looking funny at people.

But UK residents don’t describe themselves as Christian unless they are, whatever variety.

Muslims presumably are religious, though sects differ in practices.

So you clearly did not watch the clip that I posted or you would have seen that it shows much more of the exchange than the clip you posted. Ridiculous!

Yes I agree with that. I wish we had a society where someone like Brianna could just present however they liked without hostility and without having to be anxious.

I think the only way that happens is by allowing children to express themselves very early and making no assumptions about the boy in the Princess dress or the girl dressed as superman (totally cartooning).

The debate is now so toxified that I can see it would be easy for a parent with a boy in a princess dress to get a mouthful from someone making the wrong assumptions, about "safeguarding" and "child mutilation" when they've done nothing wrong.

Don't know what the answer is but I do agree with Cass that the polarisation is not helping at all.

I do not understand how you cannot see that it is absolutely misogyny to suggest that men with penises are women as Starmer has done. How about when he said that it is 'wrong and shouldn't be said' that only women have a cervix? Is that not misogyny either? 🙄