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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Final Report Cass Review now published

308 replies

IwantToRetire · 10/04/2024 02:10

Dr Hilary Cass has submitted her final report and recommendations to NHS England in her role as Chair of the Independent Review of gender identity services for children and young people.

Download from https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report/

Final Report – Cass Review

https://cass.independent-review.uk/home/publications/final-report

OP posts:
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26
WarriorN · 10/04/2024 12:58

@RedToothBrush will there be one though?

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 12:59

@MalagaNights yes and no.

The proposed guidance didn't quite go far enough to fully safeguard the child.

But I'm hoping that this is spelt out more clearly in kcsie.

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 13:00

It was still indicating that there might be some children transitioning.

I'm trying to work out if that's the case in Cass, though no more nhs pbs certainly would add to that.

MalagaNights · 10/04/2024 13:12

WarriorN · 10/04/2024 13:00

It was still indicating that there might be some children transitioning.

I'm trying to work out if that's the case in Cass, though no more nhs pbs certainly would add to that.

I think Cass still doesn't rule out any social transition. It just imlies caution and it could lead to medical pathways and recommends clinical support for advice.

So I think schools position should be no supporting social transition unless with clinical advice. Which was broadly the school guidance position?

But I need to read it more closely.

Yes to KCSIE amendment!

Hippymum33 · 10/04/2024 13:12

I'm confused, surely this legislation is designed to actively help children not cause them further harm?

peanutbuttertoasty · 10/04/2024 13:16

I was surprised to hear on the radio this morning that whilst kids won’t be given puberty blockers on NHS they will still be given other hormones, eg testosterone. I hadn’t heard that before but doesn’t sound great. Does Cass talk about that?

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 13:31

40. This is a heterogenous group, with broad

ranging presentations often including complex

needs that extend beyond gender-related

distress and this needs to be reflected in the

services offered to them by the NHS.

41. Too often this cohort are considered a

homogenous group for whom there is a single

driving cause and an optimum treatment

approach, but this is an over-simplification of the

situation. Being gender-questioning or having a

trans identity means different things to different

people. Among those being referred to children

and young people’s gender services, some may

benefit from medical intervention and some may

not. The clinical approach must reflect this.

If this applies to children the same applies to adults. With all the implications for law making and safeguarding that accompany this.

Recommendation 8:

NHS England should review the
policy on masculinising/feminising hormones. The option to provide masculinising/feminising hormones from age 16 is available, but the Review would recommend extreme caution. There should be a clear clinical rationale for providing hormones at this stage rather than waiting until an individual reaches 18.

Question: Why on earth did the NHS update the guidelines on hormones to adolescents just weeks before the Cass Review was due?

It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever not to wait - unless someone was DELIBERATELY politicking even at that point.

Recommendation 10:
All children should be offered fertility
counselling and preservation prior to going onto a medical pathway.

Your regular reminder of how women with physical medical conditions are regularly refused surgery related to reproductive organs on the basis that they might change their minds later. Not women who are very young but women approaching their thirties and beyond.

108. Establishment of a National Provider

Collaborative should ensure the regional

centres operate to shared standards and

operating procedures, developing protocols for

assessment and treatment. The Collaborative

should have a role in overseeing ethics, training

and professional development, data and audit,

quality improvement and research requirements,

as well as providing a forum for the discussion

of complex cases. The aim is that no matter

where in the country the child/young person

is seen, they will receive the same high

standards of evidence-based care.

No rogue clinics which you can select on the basis of their over arching ideology which was the fear of many here. Establishment of professional standards that are universal across the country with service providers held to account by a central body. This is good.

120. There is a lack of confidence among

the wider workforce to engage with gender-

questioning children and adolescents. Many

clinicians working with children and young

people have transferable skills and expertise,

but there is a need for all clinicians across the

NHS to receive better training on how to work

sensitively and effectively with trans, non-binary

and gender-questioning young people.

You mean all that training outsourced to Stonewall and Mermaids isn't good enough?! What was wrong with it? (Innocent face).

Recommendation 15:
NHS England should commission
^a lead organisation to establish a consortium of relevant professional bodies to:
^
• develop a competency framework

• identify gaps in professional
^training programmes
^
• develop a suite of training
materials to supplement professional competencies, appropriate to their clinical field and level. This should include a module on the holistic assessment framework and approach to formulation and care planning.

Removal of power from Trusts on this by the looks of it and a centralised quality controlled internal training framework. Stonewall are not compatible with these criteria.

142. Discussions with clinicians highlighted the

importance of differentiating the subgroups

within the referred population who may be at risk

and/or need more urgent support, assessment

or intervention; there may also be subgroups

for whom early advice to parents or school staff

may be a more appropriate first step.

Teaching unions have an issue with regards to their current political position and their legal duty of care responsibilities... Massive conflict of interest here.

156. GPs have expressed concern about
being pressurised to prescribe hormones after
these have been initiated by private providers
and that there is a lack of clarity around their
responsibilities in relation to monitoring.
157. The Review understands and shares
the concerns about the use of unregulated
medications and of providers that are not
regulated within the UK. Any clinician who
ascertains that a young person is being given
drugs from an unregulated source should make
the young person and their family aware of the
risks of such treatment

Well that's not difficult to work out who that's being aimed squarely at.

NHS number

161. Currently, when a person requests to

change their gender on their NHS record,

NHS guidance requires that they are issued

with a new NHS number. This has implications

for safeguarding and clinical management of

these children and young people and could

affect longer-term health management

(for example, the screening they are offered).

162. From a research perspective, the issuing

of new NHS numbers makes it more difficult to

identify the long-term outcomes for a patient

population for whom the evidence base is

currently weak.

Question: Should DBS forms be tied to NHS numbers to prevent issues arising from Name Changes? This would work if you can't change NHS numbers.

• A major problem in making sense of trial findings is bias. There are many ways in which
^results can be biased. For example, if 50% of the sample drops out, this would be referred to as a high attrition rate. It’s possible that the people who remained in the study are those who responded well to the treatment, whereas those who dropped out did so because the treatment wasn’t working for them or they had bad side effects. This could result in a positive bias in the study outcomes; in other words showing an effect when there isn’t one.
It could also fail to show the side effects that caused people to drop out.
^
• Another way of biasing results is if the patients in the treatment and control groups
^differ in some way; for example, one group has more people who are younger, or sicker.
^Researchers will assess the groups on several measures and compare them to see if they are similar at the start of the study (baseline assessment). Random allocation of people to the study groups and large numbers of participants help reduce the risk of differences between study groups.
• It is very important to get the inclusion and exclusion criteria of a study right (that is,

which patients can and cannot be included). For example, a trial might report that a
painkiller is highly effective, but if it turns out that only people with osteoarthritis in the knee were included it would mean that the results cannot be generalised to patients with headache. Although the drug may work very well for headache, it is not possible to be sure about this on the basis of findings of this particular study.
• In any design where patients are not blinded and know they are getting a particular
^drug, or where they have chosen a specific treatment rather than being randomised to one, they may show improvement because of a placebo effect (that is, they believe that the treatment will produce a beneficial outcome).
^
• Sometimes there are confounding factors in a study, such as the patient getting another

treatment at the same time as the trial treatment. Though randomisation and blinding
^minimise the risk of bias and confounding, this is notcompletely watertight.
^
• There must also be enough patients in a trial (the term ‘sufficiently powered’ is often
^used where there are) to be sure the results reflect the range of possible outcomes and do not give a ‘positive´ result by chance, a so-called Type 1 (or alpha) error. Study outcome measures are generally reported as the average for a group, but the range is usually also given and can be very wide. For example, if the average outcome for a group is 5 points out of a possible 10, a range of 2-9 would indicate much more varied outcomes across the group than a range of 4-6. Size influences whether the reported outcomes are statistically significant. In very small studies, for example one with only
four patients put on a treatment and in which three got better and one got worse, it would not be possible to understand the full range of possible outcomes. Furthermore, the benefits for three individuals could have happened by chance. For a result to be statistically significant, it must be unlikely that the result could have happened by chance. This is why substantial numbers of participants are required and a key requirement of any trial is a pre-recruitment estimate of how many will be needed for the study to produce meaningful results.
• There are many other potential problems, some of which include:
^
- unconscious bias in questionnaire design where the questions are written
^in a way that prompts a more favourable response;
^
- using the wrong kind of analysis for the available data;

- not following up for long enough to see the full benefits or harms of a treatment;

- seeing an improvement because patients were improving spontaneously over time;

- publication bias where, for example, only positive results are published.

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 13:33

That moment in films when music plays and goes Huuuulllajjjah, Huuuulllajjjah, Huuuulllajjjah.

RethinkingLife · 10/04/2024 13:36

peanutbuttertoasty · 10/04/2024 13:16

I was surprised to hear on the radio this morning that whilst kids won’t be given puberty blockers on NHS they will still be given other hormones, eg testosterone. I hadn’t heard that before but doesn’t sound great. Does Cass talk about that?

There will be a trial for puberty blockers under the aegis of NRCP, NHS England, NIHR and HDR UK.

A study into the potential benefits and harms of puberty suppressing hormones as a treatment option for children and young people with gender incongruence is being developed through the National Research Collaboration Programme (NCRP) in place between NHS England and the National Institute of Health and Care Research (NIHR). The NRCP joint programme provides a collaborative approach to study development; studies being progressed through this route still have to demonstrate that they can materially build the evidence base for potential future NHS treatment options, while meeting a high scientific bar in terms of research methodology, as well as securing other important research approvals, including ethics committee approval.
It is envisaged that children and young people in both England and Wales will be able to participate in the study with access through NHS children and young people’s gender services. A multi-disciplinary team approach will be taken to identify those children who, with the consent of their parents, may be deemed clinically suitable for consideration of puberty suppressing hormones through the study. Children participating in the study will also continue to receive comprehensive psychosocial support.
The study will measure a range of potential treatment benefits and harms (for example whether puberty suppressing hormones impact in a meaningful way on levels of anxiety or depression, on body image, or brain development) using a range of validated tools, questionnaires and user feedback. Key measures included in the study, and the way data are collected, will aim to bridge gaps in existing research and will also be shaped by engagement with a range of stakeholders, including children and young people referred into NHS gender services and their families or carers.
Professor Emily Simonoff has been confirmed as Chief Investigator for the study. Emily is Professor of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience, King’s College London, where she is also currently Head of the Department of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry and Director of the King’s Maudsley Partnership for Children and Young People. She has extensive research experience and is also academic lead for the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Services Clinical Academic Group at the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust. The research will be co-sponsored by King’s College London and the South London and Maudsley NHS Foundation Trust.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/cyp-gender-dysphoria-research-oversight-board/

NHS commissioning » Children and Young People’s Gender Dysphoria Research Oversight Board

Health and high quality care for all, <br />now and for future generations

https://www.england.nhs.uk/commissioning/spec-services/npc-crg/gender-dysphoria-clinical-programme/implementing-advice-from-the-cass-review/cyp-gender-dysphoria-research-oversight-board#:~:text=Research%20Oversight%20Board-,Children%20and%20Young%20People's%20Gender%20Dysphoria%20Research%20Oversight%20Board,they%20are%20shaped%20and%20developed.

FusionChefGeoff · 10/04/2024 13:36

@MissScarletInTheBallroom I'm not quoting as it's such a long post but yours at 8.06 is phenomenal and I agree and identify with every single point.

I also feel humbled and (tearfully) grateful that I am a part of this truly awesome community

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/04/2024 13:42

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 10/04/2024 07:11

Just had time to skim read this.

Two standout points for me.

GIDS refused to provide its data to Cass. And the graphs showing the rise in referrals only go from 2009 to 2016 (showing a sharp rise in adolescent females) because GIDS stopped recording referrals by birth sex after 2016.

😲

To me that reads like GIDS knew full well that what they were doing was highly unethical, did it anyway and have tried to cover their tracks.

Having read Hannah Barnes’ book on GIDS, I would agree with your assessment that they were covering up their tracks. They were always uncooperative with any attempts to investigate their activities and very antagonistic towards any criticism.

MalagaNights · 10/04/2024 13:47

Hannah Barnes said when she first published Time to Think she didn't believe The Tavi was ideologcally captured, but by the time she wrote the additional chapter for the paperback she's changde her mind.

I suspect this is becuases she'd seen the refusal of the clinics to share data and enage in research for Cass.
This only makes sense if it's ideological.

BusyMummy001 · 10/04/2024 13:54

@MissScarletInTheBallroom I thought the lack of data post 2016 only served to demonstrate how obstructive GIDS has been. Their shortsightedness is stunning : how could they not appreciate that this reflects poorly on them, brings the service further into disrepute, and is prima facie (Sp?) evidence of their lack of desire to put the needs of children first by ensuring this report was accurate and comprehensive?

Given a hole, they just keep digging, don’t they?

ADoggyDogWorld · 10/04/2024 14:06

Cauliflowery · 10/04/2024 09:35

And everyone is welcome to join discussion here. We don't dox or issue threats of rape and other violence to posters who disagree.

I've lost count of the number of TRAs who feel confident enough to start a thread without having understood a single thing we've been talking about on other threads. How inclusive is that, that they feel able to do that?

We don't turn up in trans spaces to threaten rape and violence and drown out their speaking. We don't mobilise thugs to prevent gatherings of trans people.

I think the problem is that we disagree. We argue, debate, cite evidence and quite often swear. We don't automatically defer to men. This space, ironically, is gender non conforming and TRAs don't like that. We're supposed to stay in our gender box, because to do otherwise undermines their argument.

yy we do disagree, and there is robust debate and discussion. No group think or Borg style 'hive mind' . I have also had my arse handed to me, no hurty feels, on one thread, on another one been in total agreement.

FinallyASunnyDay · 10/04/2024 14:57

OK2023 · 10/04/2024 12:29

Can anyone expand on this? Anyone in medical profession perhaps? It’s a very good question and I really want to know the answer

See my response on this thread at 0926 (sorry, don't know how else to link) - am a GP and it worries me hugely. There is no system.

RethinkingLife · 10/04/2024 15:06

FinallyASunnyDay · 10/04/2024 14:57

See my response on this thread at 0926 (sorry, don't know how else to link) - am a GP and it worries me hugely. There is no system.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5046923-final-report-cass-review-now-published?reply=134430105&

Very clunky but there's a 'Share' button available in the desktop version (not a clue about the mobile app).

Final Report Cass Review now published
Unicornleapfrog · 10/04/2024 15:44

I have noticed this statement in the Cass report.

There were more than 3,000 young people being seen by gender identity services were birth-registered girls presenting in early teens, "often with quite complex additional problems".

I previously worked with SEN teens and I have said from the very start that it was criminal to allow so many neurodivergent and SEN teens to both socially and medically transition. I know of 7 girls who were neurodivergent who were able to access medication and allowed to socially transition in the education system.

It almost feels like a deliberate way to take the chance for these teens to reproduce in the future which is a very dark thought.

These teens should have been safeguarded and this has all been allowed to happen.

akkakk · 10/04/2024 16:06

LizzieSiddal · 10/04/2024 07:37

So relived this is now out, after initially feeling elated that we have been vindicated, I’m now feeling depressed because it’s not over is it?
With the likes of Girl Guides (who now sell Pride keyrings) and schools not following government guidelines, are any of these “trans child” pushers going to listen to Cass and stop pushing their agenda?

Edited

That depends on:
a) those in power having the strength to do what is right
b) someone / many suing the NHS / clinics / even schools for pushing their transition

Ingenieur · 10/04/2024 16:08

PronounssheRa · 10/04/2024 10:20

I think there needs to be an enquiry into GIDs and how it operated and why the usual oversight in the NHS failed

If there are any children who have been harmed then people need to be held accountable.

Don't forget the endocrinologist and the other disciplines that happily supported the psychologists and psychiatrists at the Portman and Tavistock.

All are culpable.

FannyCann · 10/04/2024 16:12

Abeona · 10/04/2024 08:32

Later this morning I'm going to book an appointment at a surgery with my MP so that I can go in and wave the articles at both him and his supercilious staff and say 'I told you. I told you all this six years ago. And you have treated me as if I'm insane — as if I'm the problem.' As everyone has said, the Cass report confirms that everything we've been concerned about here for years was right. Thank goodness for Mumsnet, even if I was regularly deleted and sanctioned and have been banned on two occasions.

How annoying it is to have been at work and unable to keep up with all the news re Cass and Giggle v Tickle.

Anyway I love your plan to visit your MP and enjoy your "I told you so" moment.

Can I suggest everyone who has ever met with their MP about this does the same. I just live the idea of their surgeries being swamped by women waving reports and articles and loudly saying "I told you so".

Ought to get it on a T shirt really.

FannyCann · 10/04/2024 16:28

Don't forget the endocrinologist and the other disciplines that happily supported the psychologists and psychiatrists at the Portman and Tavistock.

Yes I've often wondered how it is that the endocrinologists seem to have got off Scot free, a bit like Macavity the cat.

GIFs assessed and referred to endocrinology. But surely the endocrinologists should have been doing blood work, follow up, making sure they were prescribing correctly. And why were they so lacking in curiosity not to audit this new cohort of patients being given off label drugs and monitored for side effects etc?

Maybe I missed it.

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/04/2024 16:32

The New York Times is reporting on Cass Review:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/09/health/europe-transgender-youth-hormone-treatments.html

https://archive.ph/7yf0m

theilltemperedclavecinist · 10/04/2024 16:43

UtopiaPlanitia · 10/04/2024 16:32

“The intention with the Cass review is to be neutral, but I think that neutral has maybe moved,” said Laurence Webb, a representative from Mermaids, a trans youth advocacy organization in Britain. “Extremist views have become much more normalized.”

Confused
LizzieSiddal · 10/04/2024 16:48

theilltemperedclavecinist · 10/04/2024 16:43

“The intention with the Cass review is to be neutral, but I think that neutral has maybe moved,” said Laurence Webb, a representative from Mermaids, a trans youth advocacy organization in Britain. “Extremist views have become much more normalized.”

Confused

These people are reminding me of advocates of smoking/ use of oil, who shouted very loudly, refusing to believe they caused harm, even when presented with lots of evidence. Their behaviour is criminal!

Vod · 10/04/2024 16:58

RedToothBrush · 10/04/2024 07:18

I'm sorry but no.

It's the whole, "Ukraine should seek peace with Russia" argument.

Ukraine has been defending itself on its own land. This war didn't need to happen. It could have been stopped at any point by the Russians. Ukraine can't just stop the war as otherwise Russia would have been in Kyiv.

MN was the defensive line. Women and children were under attack. We did not shift position in politics. We didn't want to change language. We didn't want to remove the rights of another group. We did not want to replace sex with gender. We did not want to undermine ethical medical practice. We did not want to bring ideology into medicine or education.

We stood exactly stock still whilst we had bricks thrown at us. We did not threaten on MN.

Other social media might have. Other groups might have.

But NOT MN.

We just called it for what it was. A cult like ideology which has no scientific basis which has come after women and kids.

I'm not going to 'own anything' other than say, MN has been saying everything in that goddam report for years and every attempt was made to stop us from saying those things.

I will not allow MN to be vilified in this.

I was trying to think of a good analogy here, and this one is perfect.