Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

I'm not sure how this translates across cultures seeing as men and women are always men and women based on actual biology and nothing else.
You do get men who present themselves as women such as lady-boys in the Far East and Khusra/Hijra in south east Asia but they identify as exactly that, not as women. They're not saying they're women.
This is very confusing and using opposite sex pronouns in many of these languages just wouldn't make any sense.

I wonder if this thread falls foul of the new Scottish hate crime laws? Age is of course one of the protected categories so sweeping negative generalisations about people based on their age is risking a visit from the hate monster.... (or is that not how it works?!)

Yes, English is not my native language.

Apologies if you feel offended by my language issues. I hope I still have a right to post here.

@Inauthentic Apologies if you feel offended by my language issues. I hope I still have a right to post here.

No apologies needed! I'd be surprised if anyone is offended by your language and you don't need to ask for the right to post here. MN is here for discussion!

I woud appreciate an answer to my previous posts tho please :)

@FlemishHorse I think it’s perfectly possible that some humans that present as men have “a sense of self” as female.

I don't understand your logic here - what exactly does 'a sense of self as female' mean

(I was a “tomboy” girl, actually prayed as a child to please let me wake up and be a boy. A rejection of the limitations imposed on girls in my generation. I’ve never been a conventionally girly women. But I’ve never had any “sense of self” as anything but female.)

You wished you were the opposite sex, but realised you were your born sex. 'A rejection of the limitations imposed on girls in my generation'

and yet you belive that men can actually wish themselves to be the opposite sex and it's a fact.... ?

Mid 30s.

I don’t hate trans people but they shouldn’t be in women’s single sex spaces or sports. And should leave children the hell alone

Thank you. Totally agree with this.

Apt username OP.

Yes and no. I think one of the big differences is that the rhetoric isn't blindly followed in an emperors new clothes way, and valid concerns are voiced- because they are allowed to. Any young person in certain situations who voices the same concerns is shutdown, ostracised and punished.

I'm nearly 60, have been a Labour voter most of my adult life (fuck knows who I'll vote for now!) voted against Brexit and am gender critical.

Yep.and "boomers" too. The people who fought for women's liberation, gay rights, abortion rights, campaigned for civil liberties, built women's refuges -all suddenly bigots.

You have totally misused the word Woke.

Have not (yet) RTFT.

It is not about "trans rights" they have all the rights they need. In law.

Women don't even, apparently, have the right to gather and talk about their lives.

Women don't have the right, apparently, to any single sex services. Even when they have been raped.

What's your point outside of the ageism?

I'm 30. I believe trans people have the right to feel safe and free from harm, the right to employment, housing, to vote, to receive healthcare. All the things I believe everyone has the right to deserve.
I don't believe you can change your biological sex. I don't believe a trans person can be female, they shouldn't partake in women's sports or have access to women's spaces. I don't believe puberty blockers should be used, and I don't think children should be able to use things like binders, or access hormones etc.

The cliff notes version is I believe trans people have the right to live in whatever manner they want providing, just as any other male shouldn't, it doesn't infringe upon the rights or safe spaces of women or girls.

NC fail?

56, marched in Washington D.C. for women’s rights (in the 90s). I am not cis, men don’t belong in women’s spaces and sports. I think trans women/men is a mental health issue.

It's not 'resistance to trans rights', unless trans rights mean the total acceptance of someone's 'gender identity' at absolutely all costs, and choosing obliviousness to biological sex. There's a line between supporting the rights of transsexuals to live peaceful lives and to avoid discrimination in jobs, housing etc, and supporting the rights of males to compete in women's sport because 'there's no real difference between men and women, 'cis' women should just try harder'.

Having said that, I agree that on average, gender critical people are older. They haven't been exposed to genderist thinking from a young age, or taught that resisting it is heresy and makes you a terrible person. What older people understand through experience is:

• Trans and non-binary aren't natural and frequently occurring human variations. When we were growing up, we did see people rebel against gender norms, but they didn't think that made them the opposite sex.
• Trans and non-binary are reactionary and anti-feminist concepts. If gender identity is innate, then gender roles are innate. If a girl who 'wants to act like a boy' is probably not a girl at all, but non-binary or trans masc, that's enforcing rather than challenging gender.

Without the fear of being judged, older people are more able to take a step back and see the bigger picture - which includes meaningful patterns such as older males and younger females transitioning.

As a side point, there are strong indications that transgenderism is a fad, a popular movement that is running out of steam. Apparently the younger kids are turning against it. I've also noticed in the corporate environment, the energy has gone out of it. Higher management have quietly removed pronouns from their signatures, days such as Transgender Day of Visibility are ignored, and there aren't the same training courses as before.

I'll need to see evidence that was anything approaching a mainstream opinion. There was hate and violence, and idiots concerned about children.

But not disbelief homosexuality existed

I'm a millennial, my position on this is probably seen as a cop out by many and it's similar to yours I think. To give some background, I have struggled with body dysmorphia. The crazy thing is I was fine for 39 years and then in the last 12 months I've felt inadequate, purely because I am not well endowed and for the first time, I felt insecure watching male-female pornography (ironically a great way of quitting porn).

So I get it, people born male or female and feeling they're in the wrong body or whatever. But I draw the line at sport, women's sports should be protected. Trans athletes will destroy the integrity of women's sports. Also women's spaces such as toilets should be protected. Have a separate toilet for trans people. It

I'm a 33 year old university educated northerner who is strongly gender neutral. I don't think we need sex based rights/spaces and would love to see more mixed sport.

MrWarmth I’m sorry you’re struggling.

Do you play sports? Most women, myself included, who are very sporty don't mind playing a bit with men for fun or scrimmage but no way do we want to do it for competition. Some sports it's dangerous for fun. My sister's kidney tore from a man's kick that missed a ball-they we're just playing "for fun". Men's full strength is shocking for women who aren't that physical in general.

Sadly, I don’t think this is true.

Which generation has been brought up watching hardcore porn, rife with violence against women?

Which generation made Andrew Tate a guru?

Rape is pretty much decriminalised.

Online dating makes relationships into commodities, which disproportionately hurts women.

Progress is unfortunately not a one way street, and there is currently a backlash against women’s rights equal to the one we saw post war and in the fifties.

I can't edit my comment above and I had more to add but hit send too quickly 🤣

Having thought about it, I am in the gender critical camp. If you're an adult man and you want to dress up as a woman (so long as you aren't harming anyone or trying to force your way into women's sports and spaces) then fair enough. Go for it. But puberty blockers for children is an absolute batshit idea. We're going to create a generation of mentally and physically scarred kids and for what? To be seen as inclusive or progressive? For a pat on the back? Common sense left this debate a long time ago.

As for the OP, this isn't an age thing or a right wing vs left wing thing, the majority of people in this country - across the spectrum of colour, religion, race, political views - are gender critical.

As I said I suffer from body dysmorphia but I'm not about to put on a dress and join my local women's cricket club.

We need more investment in mental health services, aimed at teenagers and adults who feel like this. There are numerous examples of people who have transitioned, regretted it, then detransitioned.