Older generations show resistance to trans rights

[Inauthentic]

"Millennials and Gen Z tend to be overwhelmingly supportive of trans people, having grown up in a more inclusive environment, while older generations show far more resistance to trans rights, likely intimidated by the speed of social change."

Is this your experience?
There appears to be an overwhelming support for gender critical beliefs on Mumsnet.
Is it because it's mainly older generations engaging in this debate?

How old are you and what are your views?

I am 45yo and I mostly support trans rights (with the exception of trans athletes competing in woman's events and I agree puberty blockers is a grey area)

They have penises. Women do not have penises. They are caricaturing women and little girls, which is offensive.
The pictures are a bit grainy but I think one of them may be of a well known rapist.

On the basis that all drugs are illegal in the UK and the people who provide them are part of or allied to criminal gangs that also support people trafficking and enforced prostitution just for starters?

No, nothing contemptible about people who support those trades at all.

@ForCoralFox if you say "people with cervixes" you exclude anyone who does not already know what a cervix is or who has one. I have had experience of a woman who had limited English who did not know what it was. It would be similar for anyone with low levels of English comprehension for what ever reason. Studies show that many women without those barriers don't know what a cervix is, where it is or what it's for.

"Women" makes it clear. If you think that transmen and non-binary female people might not know that they have a cervix then you could add "including female people regardless of gender identity". Or a similar phrase of your choosing. No need to remove the word "woman" from that situation.

You're getting quite close to my area of professional expertise here, and I think you are quite wrong. We need to be very explicitly biological when talking about medical matters. You are weaponising certain groups here to advance an agenda that has nothing to do with ensuring access to appropriate healthcare.

India Willowby has a cervix - according to Indy.

I know the words for woman/man in several European languages and could probably figure it out in many of the others. Polish for cervix, not a clue? Danish for prostate? No idea. So do you think a person who is a immigrant with English as an additional language or someone with a learning disability is more like to know if they are a man or a woman or whether they are a cervix haver or a prostate owner?

Language matters.

@ForCoralFox - how do people know what internal organs they have? I'll answer my own question: because we're told. We cannot just know if we have a cervix, a prostate, vas deferens, ovaries etc etc. So how much use would it be for any health service to talk about 'people with a cervix' etc? Very little, I'd say, and watch morbidity and mortality from those diseased organs sky rocket. For what? To assuage the feelings of a few deluded folx.

Anyway, I think you're all very patient with these annoying people like CoralFox and OP with their naivety. To me, they come across as five year olds clutching an abacus who've wandered into an A level lesson in pure maths, asking daft questions with no idea how they appear to others.

The answer to that is decriminalisation, not demonising recreational users or indeed addicts, who are not served by the current model.

I’m an old crone and I think the whole trans activist movement is a pile of shit. The world is going to hell in a handcart climate change war famine collapse of essential services and we have to waste time money and headspace negotiating with a tiny minority of men who want to persecute women. And I voted remain.

Really?

You appear to believe that the desire of a few male people to use women's spaces trumps the desire of a much greater number of female people for those spaces to be single sex.

Do you have any justification for that point of view which doesn't boil down to "misogyny"?

You're getting quite close to my area of professional expertise here, and I think you are quite wrong

She isn't wrong, whatever your "area of professional expertise" is.

You think any man should be able to go into women's changing rooms as long as they don't commit a crime?

I'm male and I know a lot of men just like looking at naked or semi naked women, can you not see a problem with giving them absolute permission to do so? Do the rights of the women being ogled not matter?

When we have laws that refer to “men" and "women", collect pay and crime statistics for "men" and "women", and have "men" and "women" categories for full-contact and combat sports, we absolutely need to strictly define women.

ForCoralFox "Advancements in skincare, tweakments etc"

I think you possibly only get to meet one type of woman. None of my friends have done any "tweakments" - we don't feel it's necessary to try and look as if we are still 30.

It's a mistake to assume that the primary concern of all women is passing as 20 years younger. We have other interests.

Yes, we do need to be explicitly biological when talking about medical matters.

That's why it's a problem that male people are describing themselves as female and some are even claiming to have cervixes.

You're quite close to getting it. Stick around a bit longer, you might get there eventually.

It woudo be interesting if for once the trans activist could address the substantive points . Eg

what makes men who say they are women actually women?
what about the known and proven risks to women and children ?
what other groups can be defined by “ I say so therefore I am”? Will we let people self identity as eg 5 year olds and be in reception classes or dentists and drill peoples teeth ?

They know they have no rational response to these, so they rely on launching personal attackers on those who hold them. So you are all old / Tories / Brexit voters / Christian / whatever. Because obviously people who have any of these protected characteristics are sub human and don’t deserve a vote and other basic human rights.

So a transwoman who believes heart and soul that they are a women and most also believe heart and soul are an actual female is going to think "ah I must go and get my prostate checked" Wouldn't that be completely at odds to their inner true identity and that TRAs are trying so hard to be punishable as a hate crime?

The ideology is built on lies and untruths and thank god most people are calling it out for what it is.

I prefer unisex facilities with plenty of individual changing cubicles for those who prefer them. However I am well aware that there is no design for those that will not be picked apart for one reason or another by the gender critical lobby.

It's not really my business where people direct their eyes to be honest, but if I felt a man was being creepy I'd happily confront or report him. Facilities should be well staffed so that people never have to be feel intimidated when using them, by people of the same or a different gender.

I'm 62 and extremely liberal, I'm a wiccan high priestess, life long vegetarian and have been a naturist all my life. I was also around for Greenham Common and have always lived an alternative life much frowned upon by my slightly stuffy and old fashioned relatives. I had a child on my own at 21 when it was very much looked down on.
I've always been open to difference, live and let live so my TERF opinions are far from age related, I'm not an old grandma knitting and tutting in front of the t.v.
I'm a TERF because I see women's rights and the ones we fought so hard for being stripped away for a few men. I am not going to indulge someones fetish.
I wonder if the younger generation realise what it was like to fight for women's rights, equal pay and also fight against societal norms. In the 1980's babies were still being removed from single mums, I had to fight to keep my child.
Now here we are again.

I can feel my own cervix with my fingers and have to at intervals to check IUS strings. However, given the taboos around touching the vagina and any act that might be perceived as female masturbation, I can understand that women aren't going to go on a fishing expedition up there. Even if they did, they wouldn't necessarily be able to name what they found.

And a lot/most people would have no clue what the pamphlets are talking about…

Which is an issue that has already been highlighted as a really serious concern, eg effect of the number of smear tests.

I don't know anyone who has had any tweakments as far as I'm aware, nor any that are trying to look decades younger, but lots of women do use them, and it's indisputably true that people in their 30s upwards today look much younger than people of the same age did 30 years ago or more. Look at the thing that's been doing the rounds recently about the casts of Cheers and The Golden Girls. How many women in their 50s do you know who present like them, tweakments or not?

Generation X, left wing, gender critical, anti sex stereotype (ake "gender") non Brexit-voting, marched against section 28 and for gay rights, old school feminist woman here.

I'm not at all uncommon among the women on these boards. There seems to be a lot of ignorant, assumption-laden stereotyping in your initial post, OP. And you haven't defined your terms.

Define exactly what you mean by "trans people". How you would know you are and aren't one? Define exactly what you mean by "trans rights". What are "gender critical views", do you know?

What values do you think the people of generations older than that (so Generation X and Baby Boomers who are not, believe or not, the same generation, and are also not the Wartime Generation of our grandparents & great-grandparents) who supposedly "oppose trans rights" have? And who told you that is what we believe? What evidence are you basing your conclusions on?

FWIW, I'd be 100% certain that women like me, of my political and generational background, have a far, far freer and infinitely less stereotyped approach to, say "gender roles" than the supposedly "enlightened" Millennials & Gen Zs who appear to think rigid pink and blue sex stereotypes and authoritarian enforcement of them are progressive and liberating in some way rather than being part of a movement which is actively dismantling our hard fought-for rights and taking them back over half a century, which is how I see it.

I find their views restrictive, ill-informed and backwards. I'd also suggest that my generation had stronger principles around equality, liberty, diversity and fundamental human rights than younger generations, many of whom seem either to take them for granted or are unaware of what they are in practice, what it looks like when you don't have them, and how they arose in the first place.

Define women AND men.

If if possible to not define a woman as a non man/in opposition of a man in the process,

I think most GC feminists would be quite happy with a combination of single sex areas, individual cubicles in a mixed sex area and family changing areas, on the understanding that all males, however they identify, stay out of the female only areas.

Cameras being poked over or under the partitions are a decent reason to object to that design. I never feel safe in them and for good reason: www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html