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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Is JK Rowling ‘too big to be cancelled’?

190 replies

IwantToRetire · 06/04/2024 18:20

When JK Rowling dared police to arrest her for challenging Scotland’s new hate crime law, one outcome was assured – the multi-billion-pound Harry Potter brand continues to be a licence to print money whatever controversy surrounds her vocal campaigns.

The author, whose provocative posts this week will not be treated as criminal by police, has become one of the few public figures who appear to be “too big to cancel”, due to the enduring appeal of her wizarding franchise for big business.

Accused of transphobia for her vocal support for sex-based rights, Rowling has faced calls for a boycott of Harry Potter, from its books and movies to the blockbuster video game Hogwarts Legacy.

Potter movie actors including Daniel Radcliffe, Rupert Grint and Emma Watson joined the backlash, criticising her comments.

Younger staff members at one of her publishers, Hachette, threatened to down tools and refuse to work on her book, The Ickabog, in protest at her views.

Rowling has said she is not concerned about how the backlash to her position on transgender issues – she has stated that sex is biological and that female-only spaces should be protected – will affect her legacy.

She had added that anyone who thinks she is concerned has “profoundly” misunderstood her.

Corporations which might normally distance themselves from public figures who face “cancellation” for offending minority groups are standing by her.

Hachette pulled rank on its staff, saying it was “proud to publish” The Ickabog, citing “freedom of expression” as a cornerstone of publishing.

The BBC is currently shooting season six of Strike, the detective novels published by Rowling under the pseudonym Robert Galbraith.
A ratings winner for the BBC, the broadcaster is expecting additional scrutiny of the new episodes which adapt The Ink Black Heart, the novel which echoes her situation with the inclusion of a character accused of transphobia.

The BBC has had to apologise twice to Rowling after guests on news shows accused her of being transphobic.

The author has seized control of her own narrative by appearing on the podcast The Witch Trials of JK Rowling, claiming that she is not concerned that the backlash will affect her legacy and that anyone who thinks she is transphobic has “profoundly” misunderstood her.

Its a much longer article than these few paragraphs, but I am surprised by the tone as it is published in the "i" paper https://inews.co.uk/news/media/jk-rowling-too-big-to-cancel-2987608

Can also be read at https://archive.ph/KavRe

Is JK Rowling 'too big to be cancelled'?

Her views on transgender issues have provoked boycott calls but Harry Potter is still a huge money-maker

https://inews.co.uk/news/media/jk-rowling-too-big-to-cancel-2987608

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 17:38

they can be in an isolation cell in a men’s prison then can’t they

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 17:40

OvaHere · 08/04/2024 17:27

Have you had your head in a bucket of clay for several years?

It was happening everywhere.

No, I’ve been reading widely on the subject and speaking to people I trust and respect to help me form my own opinions on it.

I think it seems to be happening everywhere because that’s what the right wing MSM wants us to believe.

If it was happening, why do you think it was happening? The GRR bill has been blocked by WM and the hate speech law only came into force last week.

nutmeg7 · 08/04/2024 17:40

Thank you @Theeyeballsinthesky
@Clarabell77 You are right to be astonished that any government would think this is fine, but this is where blindly implementing “inclusivity” in every circumstance leads. Check your facts before you dismiss everything that GC people are arguing against.

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 17:41

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 17:38

they can be in an isolation cell in a men’s prison then can’t they

Absolutely!

IwantToRetire · 08/04/2024 17:42

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/04/2024 12:13

I think "JK Rowling doesn't actually believe that female people deserve single sex spaces and sports or care about child safeguarding, she's just pretending she does because she wants to undermine the Scottish independence movement" might be an even worse take than, "JK Rowling believes that female people deserve single sex spaces and sports and cares about child safeguarding because she has been radicalised by the same conservative Christians who tried to ban her books from American schools in the 1990s into hating a vulnerable and oppressed minority."

I'm impressed. I really didn't think that one could be topped.

I'm impressed. I really didn't think that one could be topped.

Totally agree. We could have a thread where we post entries for the most outlandish (but actually clichéd) whatabouterry.

This one I am sure would win this week's and it only monday. Grin

OP posts:
AccidentallyWesAnderson · 08/04/2024 17:42

That rapist was never going to be held amongst women prisoners. Do you seriously think anyone in government would think that was the right thing to do?

An excerpt from a news article last year:

The latest figures for Scotland show there were 23 trans prisoners from January to March this year.
They included 19 transgender women, seven of whom were in a women's prison, and four transgender men - one of whom was in a male prison.

And you say you work in current affairs?

nutmeg7 · 08/04/2024 17:44

@Clarabell77 “If it was happening, why do you think it was happening? The GRR bill has been blocked by WM and the hate speech law only came into force last week”

It was happening because of the simplistic and childish mantra “trans women are women”.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 08/04/2024 17:44

nutmeg7 · 08/04/2024 17:44

@Clarabell77 “If it was happening, why do you think it was happening? The GRR bill has been blocked by WM and the hate speech law only came into force last week”

It was happening because of the simplistic and childish mantra “trans women are women”.

And because the Scottish trans alliance spent several years working with the Scottish prison service to make it happen

IwantToRetire · 08/04/2024 17:51

I'll take the I'll take the coherent and measured views from the likes of Women's Aid, Engender, Rape Crisis, etc. etc. more seriously than someone who comes across as an angry, bitter, trans-hating troll any day.

Are you new to FWR?

If not then you must be aware that all of these groups (NB both WA and RC are Scottish WA and RC) have been at the end of long standing criticism, and legal challenge for in some instances breaching the law.

They are not entitled to included trans women in services advertised as women only.

More bizarrely why would you not want to support for the right of women who have suffered male violence to ask for and get same sex provision?

There is nothing to stop offering additional trans inclusive services.

Seriously please stop and think what you have said.

Because you are saying women should give up their rights.

That is the core of the issue.

Not that trans people shouldn't be provided with services but it should not ever be at the expense of women.

This thread FWR is about Feminism and Women's Rights.

The only people stirring up trouble are the trans activists who have gone out of their way to destroy women's services.

What sort of woman hating person would do that.

If all the energy these groups and politicians like NS have put into destroying women's right had actually gone into a proactive creation of trans services everybody would be better off.

Why would anyone think that pursueing a course of negativity and erasure of women's rights is something to publicly support.

OP posts:
Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 17:53

334bu · 08/04/2024 15:50

Obviously Clarabell didn't read the evidence given by Rape Crisis Edinburgh at the latest tribunal . Otherwise she wouldn't be placing her trust in them to protect women. As for Engender, come on!!!!!

Okay so any organisation that goes against JK’s view, even if they’re recognised feminist organisations set up to protect women, are wrong. This just sounds like a cult, sorry,

OvaHere · 08/04/2024 17:54

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 17:40

No, I’ve been reading widely on the subject and speaking to people I trust and respect to help me form my own opinions on it.

I think it seems to be happening everywhere because that’s what the right wing MSM wants us to believe.

If it was happening, why do you think it was happening? The GRR bill has been blocked by WM and the hate speech law only came into force last week.

I think you are woefully misinformed about what was happening in female prisons in the UK and is still happening in other countries.

https://kpssinfo.org/prisons-in-scotland/

The position on housing prisoners who identify as transgender is straightforward. Prisoners are to be housed according to their ‘social gender’:
The accommodation provided must be the one that best suits the person in custody’s needs and should reflect the gender in which the person in custody is currently living.

No distinction is made between male prisoners with a GRC and those without. Similarly, no distinction is made between male prisoners who have had ‘reassignment’ surgery and those who have not:

A male-to-female person in custody living permanently as a woman without genital surgery should be allocated to a female establishment. She should not be automatically regarded as posing a high sexual offence risk to other people in custody and should not be subject to any automatic restrictions of her association with other people in custody. However, if there is clear evidence that she, as an individual, may pose a sexual offence risk, then this should be dealt with as for any other person in custody posing a risk. Only where a risk assessment determines it is justified, should she be subject to increased staff supervision or restrictions of her association with other people in custody.

Accommodation may initially be single-cell. Whether or not a male prisoner who is ‘living as a woman’ shares accommodation with a female prisoner, is decided primarily on the basis of the risk this poses to the male prisoner. The needs of the women are secondary.

The development, evaluation and implementation of the policy, which was written by James Morton of Scottish Trans Alliance, the logo of which features prominently on the front cover, has been the subject of much criticism. You can read about this and how the Scottish Prison Service has overlooked the sex-based needs of women in prison in our report published in November 2021,

Prisons in Scotland - Keep Prisons Single Sex

https://kpssinfo.org/prisons-in-scotland

IwantToRetire · 08/04/2024 17:56

even if they’re recognised feminist organisations set up to protect women, are wrong.

See my post upthread.

These groups are no longer recongised as feminist organisations.

Are you not aware of what is called mission drift?

Are you not aware that well funded groups are often the target of entryism?

Are you not aware that they are legally in the wrong.

Just because you have only read what they have said shows that you haven't properly informed yourself.

If you had informed yourself you would know that these groups are not trusted by any actual feminist organisation.

OP posts:
OvaHere · 08/04/2024 17:58

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 17:53

Okay so any organisation that goes against JK’s view, even if they’re recognised feminist organisations set up to protect women, are wrong. This just sounds like a cult, sorry,

Engender like many Scottish orgs are funded by the Scottish government to repeat the party line otherwise they don't get funded. The only thing they can be recognised as is being another arm of the government.

IwantToRetire · 08/04/2024 18:04

Oh and please stop with the pathetically childish accusation of its all because women's groups have listened to right wingers.

Honestly, even the most basic understanding of feminism in the UK would show just how absurd that sort of comment is.

Do you really think that the 70s Women's Liberationist were under the influence of right wingers. WLM was a blend of quite strongly socialist feminsts and more liberal new age alternative women.

They created and set up the system of women's refuges that in later years became Women's Aid England and Wales, Scottish Women's Aid and Welsh Women's Aid.

It is only in very recent years that TRAs popped up and supported by MRAs (men's rights activists) starting trying to chisel away at the fundamental servcie that unfortunately women continue to need in responde to men's violence. Single SEX support services.

Why have you aligned your self with these male reactionaries.

Why do you have such little respect for women.

OP posts:
334bu · 08/04/2024 18:45

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10224269/four-of-five-trans-inmates-womens-prisons-are-murderers/

The Scottish Government preempted the GRRA bill and encouraged Scottish organisations to include men who identify as women and the Scottish Prison Service was one of them. Along with Trans lobby groups and reps from Scottish Prison Service, one of whom was later sent to Saughton Prison on child abuse charges developed the policy which sent the above prisoners to female prisons along with others convicted of seriously violent offences, including child sexual assault.

Four of five trans inmates in women's prisons are murderers

PRISON authorities have been criticised after it emerged four of the five transgender inmates held in the female prison system are murderers. The Scottish Prison Service (SPS) have been accused of …

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/10224269/four-of-five-trans-inmates-womens-prisons-are-murderers

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/04/2024 19:43

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 17:53

Okay so any organisation that goes against JK’s view, even if they’re recognised feminist organisations set up to protect women, are wrong. This just sounds like a cult, sorry,

Recognised feminist organisations like the Edinburgh Rape Crisis Centre which is headed up by a trans woman who said that female rape survivors who want single sex support are bigots who need to reframe their trauma?

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/04/2024 20:05

MishyJDI · 08/04/2024 15:32

I don't know. Probably not. But seems a bit obsessed with trans people. It can't be good for her mental health.

Though the logic bombs of her positions must be keeping her up at night. Or perhaps not.

In the end the circular arguments tied to patriarchal ideas, boxing into categories and combined with the far right push to a nuclear family that can be controlled, versus the embracing of the spectrum of human variety and celebrating the difference, fail in themselves.

Read Judith Butler and free your minds from the rabbit hole. This is a controlled agenda, and many good people are being used.

Katie (the TRA many love to hate) captured it well here. On fire:

LOL, Misty.

When we need feminism explained to us by a bloviating arse who says they are not a woman and pretends not to even understand what one is, whose next pay cheque depends on the answer being more complicated than "an adult human female", and who has literally won awards for some of the worst writing the world has ever seen, we'll let you know.

There is no problem on earth to which Judith Butler is the solution.

lady69 · 08/04/2024 20:22

I definitely think the TRAs who come here have a humiliation fetish as they always get destroyed in the comments. It’s the only explanation. 😂

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 08/04/2024 21:00

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 16:46

@Badburyrings and @BIWI

How arrogant of you to think that because we disagree with you we’re missing the point or unaware of current affairs. My job relates directly to current affairs and I’ve been doing it successfully for over two decades. I can assure you no points are missed, I just don’t think you’ve made any that are particularly convincing.

Then why aren't you making your own convincing arguments in the opposite direction?

Datun · 08/04/2024 21:02

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 12:38

As a mother with a full time job I don't really have time to write an essay on each of her views and why I disagree with them (I'll maybe come back to it later though) but I'll take the I'll take the coherent and measured views from the likes of Women's Aid, Engender, Rape Crisis, etc. etc. more seriously than someone who comes across as an angry, bitter, trans-hating troll any day. The union is working well for JK, and I really don't trust her motivations.

lol so that would be a no then.

It's probably escaped your notice, but there is a £1 million prize for anyone who can provide evidence that JKR is transphobic.

Since you think she's bitter, resentful and hateful, that should be a piece of piss, right?

Off you go.

Datun · 08/04/2024 21:07

but I'll take the I'll take the coherent and measured views from the likes of Women's Aid, Engender, Rape Crisis,

Also, let me just doublecheck, because at this point you might as well be honest, do you subscribe to the notion that female rape survivors should not have female only provision in which to recover?

CroftonWillow · 08/04/2024 21:10

Nobody can be cancelled for simply expressing the opinions that she does. This is the only time in history that what she says could be interpreted as controversial.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 08/04/2024 22:00

My post upthread about the journey seems apposite again here...

"It begins by assuming that while one should use "polite" pronouns and it is "polite" to say "TWAW", society including police, politicians, teachers etc understand that TWAM, TW don't experience the same challenges as women so when it comes to women only protections and opportunities, those stay as they were intended to be for female people.

...

It doesn't occur at the start that some trans women also want to stop anyone saying "but that's a man!" when they join women's sports teams, gain awards for women's achievements, act as female representatives or are held up as examples of women in male dominated fields."

Or be put into women's prisons.

Already we have examples on this thread of women assuming 'this can't be happening' because 'they (the gvt, the police, teachers, whoever) wouldn't do that'.

The people at the start of the journey don't realise yet their reasonable assumptions are not what is in reality happening.

Clarabell77 · 08/04/2024 22:04

Datun · 08/04/2024 21:07

but I'll take the I'll take the coherent and measured views from the likes of Women's Aid, Engender, Rape Crisis,

Also, let me just doublecheck, because at this point you might as well be honest, do you subscribe to the notion that female rape survivors should not have female only provision in which to recover?

No i do not subscribe to that notion and there is no need for anyone to subscribe to that notion because it is still going to be possible to exclude trans people from these services if it is for the protection of service users (achieving a legitimate aim as per the equality act). The organisations who provide this support to women have already made statements to support the gender reforms and explained that they currently operate a policy of self ID anyway.

MrWarmth · 08/04/2024 22:12

She's not too big to be cancelled. She's too intelligent to be cancelled. I don't mind Yousaf but the hate crime bill is ridiculous and JK has shown exactly how ridiculous it is. I'm not one of these right wing people who likes to criticise lefties and snowflakes, but the trans thing needs open and honest debate, not censorship via the backdoor.

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