Teen boy avoids jail after rape of girl, 12

[Imnobody4]

A TEENAGE boy has been handed a youth rehabilitation order after raping a 12-year-old girl who has since died in Kidlington.

Addressing the boy, Judge Lamb said: “I’m not sure it’s right to say that you were selfish but you were not kind and you need to understand that women and girls need to be treated with respect…respect and care.”

https://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/24234880.teen-boy-avoids-jail-rape-girl-12-kidlington/?ref=twtrec

What sort of idiotic language is this. Rape isn't a very kind thing to do.

I am all in for early intervention but early intervention is for exactly that - early intervention. Rape is beyond the scope. He is a danger. He did not show remorse. Violence is the red line. you can't have a violent person in the community before they will shown thy are not a threat.
We can discuss why there is not sufficient provision and what we want to achieve thus how those services should look like. However, arguing that a man who raped a girl at age 13 should be treated with the same understanding and cordiality as a 13 years old caught stealing food is not on.
This person not only believes he is not guilty but also whole community tells him don't worry, forget it happened only once. He is a danger and is not suitable for early intervention strategies.

I did not say I want men to be treated the same as women are by CJS. I want women to be treated with the same leniency. That hits me.
There was no one arguing for no custodial sentence in the thread about 15 years old, with troubled home life, who gave birth in silence - their parents did not hear anything from the family bathroom!- whom father was more keen on naming the newborn than checking on his alive daughter, who pleaded not guilty of murder. Medical evidence was inconclusive, but judge was sure she is lying and guilty. No one suggested she was slightly unkind that day but learnt her lessons.
She won't reoffend, she is a victim, we do not know what really happened but some of posters did not hesitate to call her a murderous bitch. That hits me.

Male violence should never be excused.

So I don't think you can necessarily offer the same levels of support to people affected by crimes because it serves very different purposes
Gosh, well that makes me feel so much better! Of course all the therapy and support should be aimed at the criminals (or is that too mean to call them that. Victims have to accept the hierarchy and they are just not as important.

"arguing that a man who raped a girl at age 13 should be treated with the same understanding and cordiality as a 13 years old caught stealing food is not on."

If you're responding to me could you point out where at any point I have suggested or even implied that a child who raped another child (because we are talking about children here not adult men, the male in question is still only 16) should be treated the same as a child who stole food? Because I don't think that and I haven't said it. What I did say is that it's not the normal behaviour of a happy, healthy, well adjusted child. Something has gone very wrong when at 13 a child thinks to do something like this and that something needs to be rooted out and addressed properly and prevented in future.

From your post what would you suggest happens to male children who commit sexual crimes? Do we lock them away forevermore? At no point did I suggest this boy is suitable for early intervention- he's clearly at post offending stage and needs intervention appropriate to that including rehabilitation and community supervision. My point is that we take the learning from the reasons why someone may have been more inclined to carry out a rape so we can identify other children/ young men who are in similar situations and who WOULD benefit from early intervention before they actually commit a crime. For example young men who are engaging with misogynistic content online regularly, or who are exhibiting low level, harmful or controlling behaviours in relationships or who have grown up around high levels of abuse and misogyny or who are exhibiting concerning behaviours towards female teachers or other pupils for example.

I agree that other case you mention is utterly horrific and that outrages me as well. Absolutely I'd agree she was a victim and other similar cases have angered and disgusted me just as much. Similarly we have a huge problem where I live with police pursuing women who's reports of rape didn't end up in a conviction (because we all know that doesn't mean someone wasn't actually guilty) for making a 'false' report. It's horrific, but I do see them as two very separate issues - one being the treatment of women accused of crimes or generally engaging with the justice system, and one being the appropriate sentencing of children guilty of sexually based crimes. I think part of the difficulty is in both cases, it's such a very emotive topic and people do feel affected by and emotionally invested in the outcome (totally understandably) and some people will react to that by calling for the death penalty to be reinstated or labeling someone as you say a murderous bitch without consideration for their background and vulnerability.

That is very clearly not what i said. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said there needs to be better provision for victims and it needs to be more secure and accessible for them but it also needs to be on their terms. Offenders don't get to have that support on their own terms. Where did I say that victims aren't as important?

It tells other teenage boys you can’t put your penis into a girl without permission thus protecting teenage girls. Or is it only the teenage boys we are worried about?

The sentence was
He was sentenced at Oxford Crown Court on Friday (April 5) by Judge Maria Lamb to a youth rehabilitation order with intensive supervision and surveillance for 12 months but was told custody could have been an option.

12 months seems totally inadequate for effective treatment. If he is suffering from some 'impairment' eg learning difficulties etc there is no mention of any assessment by psychologist. The use of the term 'kind' by both defence and judge is suggestive of this. The maximum of 3 years would have been more appropriate.

www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/pronouncement-cards/card/youth-rehabilitation-order-with-intensive-supervision-and-surveillance-yro-with-iss/

My problem is the evidence base for treatment and its relationship to deterrence.

Sorry don't know where Oxford news link came from.

A 12 months YRO with the intensive supervision etc was the highest community order that the Judge could order for a child 13 years old at the time of the offence. (Also, in order for this sentenced to have been considered, he must have been a 'persistent offender').

The guidelines before the Judge would have told her that she could only impose an immediate custodial sentence, if there was no alternative. If the Defence's mitigation was correct and the "poor lad" (I think some have labelled him) had stayed out of trouble since the rape, then this was a clear indication that such a custodial sentence was avoidable. The Judge handed down the correct decision - under current guidelines. An appeal that the sentence was unduly lenient will not be successful.

THIS. I’m so angry that men and boys get away with in this case - very calculated - rape, again and again. Spiking a drink is pretty much abduction isn’t it?

Thats fucking depressing that that's the strictest sentence someone can get for his raping someone.
Sorry drugging and raping someone.

Drink spiking is assault in its own right.

You mentioned early intervention at the very beginning, in context of this particular case, I will accept you were just talking about systemic failures in education and social care.

Secondly, I used a world man consciously, I do confess it was eristic, but the discourse when men are men as long as their actions do not need to be diminished is another part of the problem.

I am not discussing here how YOIs should look like and what we can realistically achieve. However, the whole point of institutions is that no, they are not menat to be a form of banishment for forever, but a place where rehabilitation can take place in environment safe for all - an offender and society.

The UK is not good on this whole business and I agree, but in principle yes he should be 'locked up' till we would have any basis to trust him around female humans beings.