Teen boy avoids jail after rape of girl, 12

[Imnobody4]

A TEENAGE boy has been handed a youth rehabilitation order after raping a 12-year-old girl who has since died in Kidlington.

Addressing the boy, Judge Lamb said: “I’m not sure it’s right to say that you were selfish but you were not kind and you need to understand that women and girls need to be treated with respect…respect and care.”

https://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/24234880.teen-boy-avoids-jail-rape-girl-12-kidlington/?ref=twtrec

What sort of idiotic language is this. Rape isn't a very kind thing to do.

"I’m not sure it’s right to say that you were selfish but you were not kind"

FFS, that makes it sound like he wouldn't share his sweeties.

My thoughts exactly,she made it sound like he ate all the M&Ms.

I don't think we can be sure she has though. We're seeing a very limited snippet of her comments, those that the journalist has chosen to include. We'd really need to see the full judgement before we could say that with any certainty.

We do know what happened here. A thirteen year old boy raped a twelve year old, who was traumatised to it to the extent that she killed herself. And then a judge told him off and said that “wasn’t kind”.

Rape has been decriminalised in the UK.

I’d also like to point out that judges in the UK are paid far less than most lawyers and, unless they’re very senior, given no physical protection. The majority of judges say they feel physically unsafe in Court. This means that the best lawyers don’t choose to become judges. The verdict is a joke because the judge was an idiot. And the judge was an idiot because the justice system has been underfunded for so long that no one competent wants the job.

Where this is all heading is that local communities, failed by the justice system, will take matters into their own hands. The criminal juwtoce ststem was actually invented for the protection of criminals because without justice what you get is lynchings by enraged mobs.

RIP poor little girl, I’m so sorry.

The criminal age of responsibility in the UK is 10 - so while not prison, youth custody (which amounts to a secure children's home) from 10 is an option for a Judge sentencing in a case of rape like this one.

I'm aware that the examples given aren't applicable here, they were in response to a question I was asked not directly relating to this case but why I felt it is important to take context and background into consideration when sentencing is happening. The age of criminal culpability in the UK is 10, one of the youngest in the entire world by quite a lot. I personally would like to see it raised I don't think it's high enough.

Poor girl. He spiked her drink for goodness sake, he knew exactly what he was doing. Reading between the lines of her father's statement it sounds like she committed suicide, so I cannot imagine their grief.
And the people excusing the actions of the boy is making me really angry! Just stop it. The age of criminal responsibility is 10, he was 13.

And yes I do believe there are some circumstances where someone can be both a rapist and abused/exploited/vulnerable themselves

Would you say that should be relevant in an adult rape case?

He killed her, though. That is what happened. He killed her through his actions. How utterly heartbreaking.

It could be that we agree, I do think he should be tried for manslaughter.

Fuck ‘kindness’. Let’s be ‘fair’ or ‘considerate’ or many other things. But I don’t think the overwhelming focus on kindness is at all helpful.

I agree. "Kind" is bollocks. What it means is very narrow.

There was another case like this where the victim was hounded by the rapists family and friends until she took her own life. These revolting creatures have also desecrated her grave.

Not sure if this is the same case as my phone won’t load

I'm sure my response is emotionally driven but I feel that a 13 year old male who rapes a girl should go to prison. He's 16 now. He should be locked up.

Like as in Scotland where 18 year old rapists are getting let off for 3 rapes of girls the age of 13 because poor man was young and immature?https://news.sky.com/story/rapist-given-lighter-sentence-due-to-immaturity-at-time-of-assaults-13012994

They'll likely have the same apologists @HoneyButterPopcorn "oh they're obviously upset by it all, very stressful for them let's give his family support and counselling'

Locking him up would...

(1) Send a message about the seriousness of the crime; how repugnant it is in the eyes of society; how it will not be tolerated, and that the harm to the victim is being recognised and taken seriously.

(2) Infliction of suffering on criminals in response to a serious crime is just a good thing in itself. The criminal is held accountable and made to suffer as a punishment.

Some people aren't going to like the idea of deliberately inflicting harm in this kind of way, but compare with other justifications of punishment and it has advantages I believe. You can of course put more resources into rehabilitation at the same time as you punish someone. You can believe in both punishment and rehabilitation as independently good things.

We have decades of progressive thinking that we should "blame society" and not the criminals.

Now is there some truth to the idea that there are "underlying causes" for crime?

Probably sure, but imo it's a "dangerous truth" that gets taken in an unbalanced way, or gets taken to an unhealthy extreme, to remove individual responsibility. Or indeed, people will just focus on the stuff that fits with their own ideology. Progressives mostly aren't going to wonder, "maybe we helped cause a breakdown of the traditional family and so increased crime is partly on us".

And the murderers of James Bulger were younger than 13 when they committed their foul, brutal crime.

TBH, I think if a boy is capable of rape at 13, he will be doing much worse when he is 14, 15, 16 . . . 20 . . .

Rape isn't a crime that comes up out of the blue. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this boy doesn't have a history of sexual exposure and/ or physical assault. Perhaps his victims have been shamed or frightened into silence.

This may be the first crime he's been charged with - it is unlikely to be the first he's committed. And he has effectively got away with it. If nothing else locking him up would send a message that this is repugnant, and the law will protect girls, and it would also keep him off the streets, rather than starting a countdown to his next crime.

Like as in Scotland where 18 year old rapists are getting let off for 3 rapes of girls the age of 13 because poor man was young and immature?

Indeed - Scotland, where adult men are considered "too immature" to be aware that rape is wrong, but 4 year olds are old enough to decide they are the wrong sex.

God almighty help us all.

yes I do believe there are some circumstances where someone can be both a rapist and abused/exploited/vulnerable themselves

That's true, but it doesn't mean it's in any way acceptable to use that as a 'justification' to dismiss the serious crime they've committed.

If they need support they should be given it, but in a secure setting. They shouldn't escape the consequences of their crime, and actually that does them no favours because it's giving them the message that what they did and what happened to them is 'ok' if their offender had a tough life.

I've been raped and it's terribly upsetting seeing the apologists particularly from people who say they work in SA services.

I'm in a support group for survivors of SA. I know two separate men who were raped as children. Both had horrific childhoods. Physical and sexual abuse and both were in the care system. Neither have ever raped or harmed a child. They actually hate rapists. I mean really despise them.

It's highly offensive to those men and any victim for someone to suggest that being a victim means there should be no consequences for committing the same crime.

It's also not relevant by the sounds of it in this case. The report says the boy has a loving supportive family.

Toenail.

Even the so-called 'progressive' approach would suggest that there is a reason that this boy raped the girl that needs to be addressed. At least in theory a YOI might be able to address the underlying causes.

Rather than just waving it all away as 'just one of those things', or a mistake he made with no apparent effort to address the implied 'reasons'.

I don't think anyone, myself included, has suggested that someone be let off completely because of their circumstances or the background to them committing a crime. I did already say it's not and shouldn't be a complete absolution but that it should be a factor considered for sentencing.

People process trauma very differently and while I'm really glad those men have been working through their trauma in the healthiest way they can, not everyone gets the same access to support. not every survivor experiences any type of abuse in the same way, even when it happens in the same household. Recently I have been working with a young man who's been SA and funding meant the free specialist counselling he's been using and feeling really safe with has just been axed. The NHS waiting list for similar will mean he no longer gets support for years due to waiting lists. It's also lucky he happens to live nearby, most of the young been I work with haven't lived close enough to any specialist service to be able to access it and due to mh haven't felt able to travel over an hour to get to it. Again I'm not saying that all men who go through SA will become sexual abusers, the evidence points otherwise actually. But for some children it can happen while they are still a child.

My point is simply that I feel in those cases context does matter and while I wouldn't expect to see anyone get off completely free, I would want to see a more lenient and therapy/rehabilitation based sentence. As far as I'm aware the harsher sentencing approach doesn't really work, it allows certain social groups to be targeted more particularly and doesn't help with reoffending rates. For those who mentioned about it being a social problem- I agree, the problem is we have a gov who are simultaneously under cutting the things that need to be in place to facilitate decent and well supervised rehabilitation and an extensive support network, charity services, NHS services, access to secure housing etc etc. It has the same impact for any offender leaving prison.

I've said repeatedly I'm aware it may not be relevant to this specific case but what I will say is that of all the young people I've worked with who've been through the justice system, their backgrounds or situations have never been disclosed because they were a minor so I'd imagine the information we get here may also be limited - there's no way to know that for sure.

Add to her father’s statement the rapist’s remorseless actions after the rape, as OP noted: He didn't admit the crime for 3 years, forcing the girl to face a court case. There is simply no evidence of remorse. He's claiming credit for not raping anyone else.

Totally unnecessary extra misery for the victim. I think we all realise what ended that poor girl’s life. The judge takes not the slightest account of that. Girls really must learn that they’re not important.

@WhereIsBebèsChambre if you’re referring to me in your post, read my response again. I said we do not have enough information. The OP had not posted the second article at that point. Don’t put words in my mouth.

It should be a secure unit if to young for yoi then moved up to yoi when old enough,there have been to many cases of rape in Scotland where not ruining the rapists life has been a first and the girls ordeal a second afterthought.
And at 13 we know the difference between right and wrong.

That still seems to say, and apologies if wrong, that you think that there are still reasons that the rapists behaviour can be excusable, if more information is needed? Not just that a 12 yo was raped, which for me is enough. All the people stating 'ah it might just be statutory..' would the Crown really have taken it this far then?

He's claiming credit for not raping anyone else.

this bit is quite important. The bar for men is so low that ‘well I’m trying to be better and not rape girls’ counts as a positive. 🤯