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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

JK Rowling laying it out clearly

155 replies

CrossPurposes · 06/04/2024 15:39

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1776616861888655835

"I believe a woman is a human being who belongs to the sex class that produces large gametes. It’s irrelevant whether or not her gametes have ever been fertilised, whether or not she’s carried a baby to term, irrelevant if she was born with a rare difference of sexual development that makes neither of the above possible, or if she’s aged beyond being able to produce viable eggs. She is a woman and just as much a woman as the others."
Etc

https://x.com/jk_rowling/status/1776616861888655835

OP posts:
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13
Ohthere · 06/04/2024 21:22

Totally agree with everything except the beetroot!

Mermoose · 06/04/2024 21:43

Mochudubh · 06/04/2024 17:28

Good grief! It really is Trying to Explain Reality to Fuckwits isn't it.

No-one has "both sets of equipment", how would that even come about?

I vaguely remember a sci-fi film where someone who was initially a girl, had an accident where the surgeons decided they were male and then they went back in time and impregnated their former self. It was bonkers,

Ha! I laughed out loud at this because the other day DH suggested a sci-fi time film with Ethan Hawke called Predestination, and I was thinking "Ethan Hawke has been in lots of terrible films, like that one with the bonkers misrepresentation of DSDs" but said ok. Watched the first few seconds and realised that Predestination is the terrible film with the bonkers misrepresentation of DSDs.
It's so outrageously sexist as well - the way the film shows that the girl isn't really a girl is that she isn't afraid of spiders.

JL690 · 06/04/2024 21:50

JKR is fabulous, I am a huge fan of hers.

Datun · 06/04/2024 22:22

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/04/2024 19:34

Suzanne Moore has written a lovely article about JKR:

This is a woman who knows how to use social media more effectively than almost anyone. Elon is probably begging for a tutorial.

I think that is becoming abundantly, and gloriously, clear.

IcakethereforeIam · 06/04/2024 22:27

Justme56 · 06/04/2024 18:11

https://thecritic.co.uk/the-truth-about-sex/

just adding this in from a few weeks ago. Some well known people discussed in it.

This people mentioned in this article are so stupid for clever people. That you can tell the sex of some species by their plumage, antlers, whatever. That they're the one who think being a woman is dresses, hair and lipstick is entirely consistent. Occasionally, male red deer will be born that don't grow antlers, they're still male. There are some male lions that don't grow manes, still male. Or birds that moult their breeding plumage, don't become sexless. Fuckwits.

BlessedKali · 06/04/2024 22:27

She is doing the patronus for all women

JanesLittleGirl · 06/04/2024 23:17

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/04/2024 19:34

Suzanne Moore has written a lovely article about JKR:

I'll bet good money that the article wasn't published in the Guardian.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 00:28

IcakethereforeIam · 06/04/2024 19:54

An archive link for the Suzanne Moore article linked above

https://archive.ph/8GKnf it'll see you safely past the paywall poppets.

Humza is accusing JKR of misrepresenting his law. He claims that she wasn't arrested shows it's working exactly as intended 🤣 To coin a phrase, well he would say that, wouldn't he.

I want to know who the rock star was.

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 07/04/2024 01:30

BlessedKali · 06/04/2024 22:27

She is doing the patronus for all women

Oh I love this - it is SO TRUE.

Do we know what JKR's patronus is? Something magnificent, naturally.

DameMaud · 07/04/2024 01:45

SallyIsEverSoNice · 06/04/2024 19:41

Full text:

@jk_rowling

You’ve asked me several questions on this thread and accused me of avoiding answering, so here goes.

I believe a woman is a human being who belongs to the sex class that produces large gametes. It’s irrelevant whether or not her gametes have ever been fertilised, whether or not she’s carried a baby to term, irrelevant if she was born with a rare difference of sexual development that makes neither of the above possible, or if she’s aged beyond being able to produce viable eggs. She is a woman and just as much a woman as the others.

I don’t believe a woman is more or less of a woman for having sex with men, women, both or not wanting sex at all. I don’t think a woman is more or less of a woman for having a buzz cut and liking suits and ties, or wearing stilettos and mini dresses, for being black, white or brown, for being six feet tall or a little person, for being kind or cruel, angry or sad, loud or retiring. She isn't more of a woman for featuring in Playboy or being a surrendered wife, nor less of a woman for designing space rockets or taking up boxing. What makes her a woman is the fact of being born in a body that, assuming nothing has gone wrong in her physical development (which, as stated above, still doesn't stop her being a woman), is geared towards producing eggs as opposed to sperm, towards bearing as opposed to begetting children, and irrespective of whether she's done either of those things, or ever wants to.

Womanhood isn't a mystical state of being, nor is it measured by how well one apes sex stereotypes. We are not the creatures either porn or the Bible tell you we are. Femaleness is not, as trans woman Andrea Chu Long wrote, ‘an open mouth, an expectant asshole, blank, blank eyes,’ nor are we God’s afterthought, sprung from Adam’s rib.

Women are provably subject to certain experiences because of our female bodies, including different forms of oppression, depending on the cultures in which we live. When trans activists say 'I thought you didn't want to be defined by your biology,' it’s a feeble and transparent attempt at linguistic sleight of hand. Women don't want to be limited, exploited, punished, or subject to other unjust treatment because of their biology, but our being female is indeed defined by our biology. It's one material fact about us, like having freckles or disliking beetroot, neither of which are representative of our entire beings, either. Women have billions of different personalities and life stories, which have nothing to do with our bodies, although we are likely to have had experiences men don't and can't, because we belong to our sex class.

Some people feel strongly that they should have been, or wish to be seen as, the sex class into which they weren't born. Gender dysphoria is a real and very painful condition and I feel nothing but sympathy for anyone who suffers from it. I want them to be free to dress and present themselves however they like and I want them to have exactly the same rights as every other citizen regarding housing, employment and personal safety. I do not, however, believe that surgeries and cross-sex hormones literally turn a person into the opposite sex, nor do I believe in the idea that each of us has a nebulous ‘gender identity’ that may or might not match our sexed bodies. I believe the ideology that preaches those tenets has caused, and continues to cause, very real harm to vulnerable people.

I am strongly against women's and girls' rights and protections being dismantled to accommodate trans-identified men, for the very simple reason that no study has ever demonstrated that trans-identified men don't have exactly the same pattern of criminality as other men, and because, however they identify, men retain their advantages of speed and strength. In other words, I think the safety and rights of girls and women are more important than those men's desire for validation.

I sincerely hope that answers your questions. You may still disagree, but as I hope this shows, I’m more than happy to have this debate.

Replying to save text. Thank you for posting in full.

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 02:11

Dumbledoreslemonsherbets · 07/04/2024 01:30

Oh I love this - it is SO TRUE.

Do we know what JKR's patronus is? Something magnificent, naturally.

German Shepherd: fierce, confident, loyal, protective.

ilurktherforeiam · 07/04/2024 03:42

MrsOvertonsWindow · 06/04/2024 19:34

Suzanne Moore has written a lovely article about JKR:

Thanks for sharing! This line is brilliant and made me teary... “It’s going to have to be me, isn’t it? Because I will always be able to feed my kids, even if everyone boycotts my books for the rest of my life. That is a phenomenally privileged position to be in.”

She didn't have to put herself in the line of fire, but she did, for all of us.❤

BezMills · 07/04/2024 06:33

I think the First Meenister is expressing "at it gender". Again.

pickledandpuzzled · 07/04/2024 07:03

VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia · 07/04/2024 02:11

German Shepherd: fierce, confident, loyal, protective.

Phoenix! Rare, spectacular, fierce…

Oblomov24 · 07/04/2024 07:10

Perfect. Thank you. She is fab.

TidyDancer · 07/04/2024 07:16

I honestly could not love her more. Fabulous woman.

Davidchecksall · 07/04/2024 07:26

Thanks to JKR for this. It reads so honestly, it is not like a statement prepared by lawyers and consultants.
About 50% of my family is female, Mother, Sister, Wife, Daughter. It is for them. As a man brought up in the 1970s I am pleased to read this.

Ohthere · 07/04/2024 07:28

@IcakethereforeIam is there any way you could post the text of the article? That link isn't working for me.

Littlepumkin · 07/04/2024 07:34

And she writes this at the end

” I am strongly against women's and girls' rights and protections being dismantled to accommodate trans-identified men, for the very simple reason that no study has ever demonstrated that trans-identified men don't have exactly the same pattern of criminality as other men, and because, however they identify, men retain their advantages of speed and strength. In other words, I think the safety and rights of girls and women are more important than those men's desire for validation.”

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 07/04/2024 07:40

Ohthere · 07/04/2024 07:28

@IcakethereforeIam is there any way you could post the text of the article? That link isn't working for me.

Suzanne Moore article:

JK Rowling’s victory over Humza Yousaf’s hate crime laws is a victory for all women
The author humiliated the SNP with a lesson in solidarity, sisterhood and the simple but incendiary power of saying no – she’s a rockstar
SUZANNE MOORE
5 April 2024 • 7:00pm
I was sitting in JK Rowling’s study, eating the biscuits her husband Neil brought us, when she told me about realising that she had to publicly fight for women’s rights. This was at the end of 2022.
Three years earlier, she had become involved in the “gender wars” by tweeting her support of <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/8GKnf/www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/amfightingfor-therightto-saymen-cannever-bewomen/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Maya Forstater who was being forced out of a job for gender critical views. This was a landmark case because it established that gender critical beliefs are protected under the Equality Act of 2010.
Rowling felt we were going through the most misogynistic era ever and had decided to speak up. This cannot have been easy. She told me, “It’s going to have to be me, isn’t it? Because I will always be able to feed my kids, even if everyone boycotts my books for the rest of my life. That is a phenomenally privileged position to be in. I consider myself one of the most fortunate people on Earth.”
People are always asking me why she does what she does because she could just have a nice life.

I think of the Joan Didion line: “In brief, people with self-respect exhibit a certain toughness, a kind of moral nerve; they display what was once called character…”
When I say she is a feminist to her core, they look bemused. It is as if no one believes anything enough to do anything that would actually cost them, except perhaps the few deluded soup splatterers.
Her nice life, though, is one that now involves seriously horrible threats to her, her family and endless abuse.
The Jo I know has ovaries of steel and a brilliant, biting wit and that is what we have seen over the past week.
To be honest, <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/8GKnf/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/01/jk-rowling-could-investigated-misgendering-snp-law-scotland/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">I think she is a bit disappointed not to be arrested. A lot of people would have happily joined her. I am not sure if Scotland has a big enough prison to put all the women in who will not call rapists “she”, who will not deny biology, who are sick of being harassed for not thinking that the sterilisation of gay children is a good idea.
We think these things not out of any hatred of trans people but because we want to protect vulnerable women and give children time to decide who they want to be. We don’t want to lie to them about changing sex, when it is gruelling and actually not possible.

Rowling deliberately defied the new woolly hate crime laws with a series of tweets calling well-known trans women, men.
<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/8GKnf/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/04/jk-rowling-humza-yousaf-comeuppance-election-scotland-hate/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Humza Yousaf had been warned that this legislation was unworkable by numerous women’s groups. Men who identified as women were protected but women weren’t. How on earth were the police going to deal with this?
Who would blink first? <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/8GKnf/www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/04/01/jk-rowling-could-investigated-misgendering-snp-law-scotland/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Rowling or the police? When what she said was not deemed a hate crime, everything began to fall apart. “Oh, it’s OK for her with her wealth” some said and there she was again, asserting that if any other woman was arrested, she would repeat those words and be arrested alongside them.
Here was a lesson in solidarity, in sisterhood and the simple but incendiary power of saying no.
Much of this fight has been about just that. Women saying no and women having boundaries and that is why the liberal left has been so fundamentally useless with their blurry “be kind” mantras, which mean be kind only to men. Or anyone who claims a minority identity.
Rowling has stood absolutely firm and what is more she has done it through the power of words alone on social media. She has made no speeches, given no interviews and yet scored this massive victory. The age of “no debate” is truly over. This is good for women and, of course, for free speech. Many were against these dumb hate crime laws, which were once again the <a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/o/8GKnf/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/04/01/jk-rowling-hate-crime-act-humza-yousaf-scotland-women-trans/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">SNP parading its so-called progressive values while undermining Scotland’s proud Enlightenment history and its notion of freedom of belief. This fuzzy but authoritarian legislation now lays bleeding because of one stupendous woman.
Rowling’s detractors, who say do not make her a martyr, really have no idea of who she is. Or how much support she has. For decades she has funded charities, set up Lumos, an NGO helping institutionalised children, and now Beira’s Place, a rape crisis centre in Edinburgh. She says a safe space for women is one where they can profess a belief in biology and when I went there I was struck by the absolute loyalty of her team. No one outside her circle knew about it until it was opened.
She told me she set it up because, “I had the lightbulb moment and I thought, ‘I don’t have to pace around my kitchen ranting. I can actually do something about this’.”
She walks it like she talks it, gives fabulous parties and most unforgivably has tremendous fun. For this alone she should probably be burnt at the stake.
This is a woman who knows how to use social media more effectively than almost anyone. Elon is probably begging for a tutorial.
At a do the other night I was chatting to an actual rockstar and he said, “I will tell you who IS a f--king rockstar … JK Rowling”.
Ain’t that the truth?

QuickFetchTheCoffee · 07/04/2024 08:11

Both good reads. She is a rock star.

AlecTrevelyan006 · 07/04/2024 08:31

Superb

HPFA · 07/04/2024 08:38

Been checking the reaction on Twitter.

So far the counter-arguments are:

"Even though she says she doesn't think women are just baby-making machines she actually does think that"

"Even though she says she's not transphobic she actually is".

My favourite was probably the person who declared the whole thing was obviously wrong and then when challenged as to whether they'd read it said "of course I haven't read anything written by a transphobe"

But basically it's all the same thing:

"Women aren't just a biological function".

"Yes, she spends two long paragraphs explaining that".

"Women aren't just gametes"

"Yes, she spent two long paragraphs explaining that"

"What about women who can't have children?"

"Yes, she spent......

You get the idea.