Dutch study proves kids grow out of gender dysphoria

[Hoardasurass]

A 15 year long dutch study has shown that gender dysphoria is temporary in most kids, I'm wondering how the activists will try and explain it 🤔

EXCL: Most kids grow out of desire to change sex, study suggests https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13263725/trans-kids-change-sex-adults-study.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

I agree the title needs to be amended to adhere to the findings of the article.

I think it strongly questions the existence of the "trans child", and vouches for a careful and prolonged diagnostic process. If you affirm that the desire of being the opposite sex means that you need to become the opposite gender (e.g. immediate change of name and pronouns), and this is set and unmodifiable, you are very likely increasing the risk of a diagnosis of gender dysphoria once the child reaches adolescence, with the more pronounced dimorphism appearing with puberty. More research is needed as always, but it's something that encourages a "watchful waiting" approach, rather than an "affirmative approach".

What do you mean by "Transgender people without dysphoria"?

AGPSs? Opportunist criminals like Isla Bryson? Part-time cross-dressing males?

No, the trans community have long said that a requirement for diagnosed gender dysphoria inappropriately medicalises "being trans".
The only thing, as far as i can tell that makes someone trans is saying they are. When we describe someone as trans, we are saying "they use the words trans to describe themselves". There may be further aspects of not liking their body etc but that is not necessary.

That's why it's become so hard to discuss - no-one will ever set out clearly what they mean when they use the word.

If this is the general level of DadJoke's reading comprehension then I'm not surprised he's so confused.

The first lines of the article clearly state, "Results showed at the start of the research, around one-in-10 children (11 percent) expressed 'gender non-contentedness' to varying degrees. But by age 25, just one-in-25 (4 percent) said they 'often' or 'sometimes' were discontent with their gender."

So the vast majority of these kids desisted from feeling discontented.

This is why it's vital that teachers and health care workers etc maintain a neutral approach and do not affirm confused children into mistakenly thinking that their bodies are wrong.

A reminder that symptoms include "preferring playmates of the opposite sex" and rely heavily on sex role stereotypes

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4096882-Surely-this-list-of-behaviours-that-challenge-social-convention-are-not-THE-list-used-by-medical-professionals-to-diagnos-gender-dysphoria

@Lovemusic82 I hear you on the autistic fixation. Although I do think fixations can cease - and when they do, it tends to be in an abrupt "don't look back" way.
I don't see how this single study is terribly significant by itself. There are a number of problems: it was carried out at a time when awareness of gender was increasing worldwide ; it asked the respondents to reflect on gender which they might otherwise not have done; the sample includes a number of subjects with mental health conditions.
In the 1970s approximately zero children and young people thought about gender as a separate concept from sex. And we knew we were stuck with the sex we were, like it or not.

My apologies - I read what an earlier poster said rather than look at the data.

Thanks. In this acknowledgement of an error you’ve demonstrated a level of maturity that others on this thread have, disappointingly, failed to.

Good-o. Are you also going to acknowledge being wrong about gender dysphoria no longer being classified as a disorder?

For a man with so much to say on the issue, you are surprisingly ill-informed.

Surprise and shock! I wanted to be a boy for over 10 years of my childhood. That's a long time, and definitely would have been enough for me to get a diagnosis of gender dysphoria nowadays. (In fact, according to the DSM I still have it!) But here I am, a 48 year old woman, who is happy to be a woman, but still not keen on the bits that made puberty traumatic (periods, breasts, attention from men - though much less now I am invisible middle aged)

Of course it's a bloody phase, and sometimes a long one when being a girl can be quite shit, and gender stereotypes have gone to shit as well.

As an autistic woman I can also see how finding a group that would actually accept me would have been a huge bonus, rather than the lonely bullied girl I was at school. No one can be mean to the trans kids, they are so very extra special and must treated as so at all times (as seen at the schools my kids and friends kids attend)

Same here wot , I'm not stereotypical 'girly' even in middle age.

Of course gender dysphoria is a mental health disorder. It’s in the DSM 5-TR. The full name of the DSM is Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.

It’s probably the worst diagnosis ever written. For pre-adolescent children you can only diagnose a child if you believe in stereotypes. For adolescents and adults it’s purely about “marked incongruence” and “strong desire”.

If there are trans people who don’t have a “marked incongruence” or a “strong desire”, what is it that makes them trans, then?

AFAIK this is the first proper study on childhood gender dysphoria and long term outcomes, in that it's the only one that's lateral and peer reviewed.

And looky look what it's found.

It's almost as though we should leave kids alone to grow up rather than subjecting them to iatrogenic traumas which stunt their physical, mental and emotional development and in some cases leave them permanently disabled.

If it's not a disorder then why does it require medical intervention?

Yes this is really key and important to recognise.

Was there a way to predict who would move on or not? Certainly reason not to use PBs.

I'd want to know what happens to the individuals who still had issues linked to their perception of their sex over more time. Through and Past 20s, especially if they don't take any steps to "transition."

I love the "I am not addressing this easily researched topic....", which I'm completely wrong about. Followed by sharing a link which contradicts the point he is trying to make.

Lord, give me the confidence of a mediocre man...

I agree. It is a good study and has very interesting findings, but if it is to be a silver bullet rather than a canary in a coalmine they need to focus their attentions on patients rather than wider social psychology.

I disagree.

Part of the narrative driving gender ideology is the idea that there is some natural wellspring of gender discontent that it is better treated early, to avoid long-term harms.

It is therefore really important to study gender discontent in the population as a whole, not just people who present to gender clinics (who encompass both those who meet the formal DSM V criteria for gender dysphoria and those with much softer symptoms).

It is important, I agree. But what you conclude for the former cannot be applied to the latter without further study.

To be fair, you’ve done the same upstream.

You stated The OP correctly stated what the study had shown

Even though a quick read of the abstract of the linked study reveals the study does not show what the OP stated.

We need both really. This research is important in helping to build the evidence base against the affirmation approach. And let’s fact it, given the backlash against research in this area, it’s significant it’s even been researched and published at all.

There does need to be long term research in the patient group too.

Well lets hope a mixture of this and the Cass review puts a halt to the medicalisation of children and the social transitioning of children in schools.

Anyone who supports the concept of medicalising the 'trans child' is a monster in my honest opinion.

No one's body is wrong, what an awful thing to teach children.

The OP said:* *A 15 year long dutch study has shown that gender dysphoria is temporary in most kids, I'm wondering how the activists will try and explain it

The study does show that. What is does not show is that dysphoria is temporary in most kids with a diagnosis of dysphoria according to DSM V. And the study did not confine itself to children who met the DSM V threshold for gender dysphoria but also included children with less pronounced unhappiness with gender. This is clearly why the authors used the more catch-all term of gender non-contentedness.

However, the OP is not one of the study's authors, and is perfectly entitled to use dysphoria in a more general sense.

I think some posters are being very theoretical in their approach to this issue.

Regardless of diagnosis of gender dysphoria there have been pushes to 'trans' children by the activists which is why we have seen social transitioning in schools etc.

My personal experience is that there has been a push to signpost children to gender services. My daughter is autistic and has mental health issues arising from her autism so she is under the care of CAMHS, a couple of years ago (pre-puberty) she had an appointment at which the mental health nurse was trying to explore gender with her just because she turned up wearing boys clothes! She hadn't said she felt like a boy / non binary or whatever, he'd just made assumptions based on stereotypes.

I know for a fact in our area most of my daughters autistic peers now identify as boys or non- binary. It's a bloody disgrace. Their parents were desperate to get help for their daughters and are not going to disagree with mental health professionals who lead them into thinking that trans identification will solve all of their problems.

My daughter has now outgrown her gender non-conformity post puberty.

I'm not sure any child who has been referred to clinics in the UK wouldn't meet the DSM V criteria for gender dysphoria. We wouldn't send children to the clinics just on the basis that they play with the wrong toys would we?

Anyway it's all a fine mess and families have been caught up in it. Heads should roll really for putting children on these harmful pathways.

I know of 2 Dutch children who had a trans/ gender identity situation. Both girls, one late primary the other secondary.

Both schools were very very supportive of their trans identity ( as were class mates and definitely one set of parents) After about a year, both realised that they weren’t trans. One was a lesbian, the other not. Both have now embraced their biological sex, and put the episode behind them ( one very actively by change school/ friendship group).

of course this is anecdotal, and neither have reached 25, so won’t be in the study, but this was an especially interesting study for me, given what I have seen from these children, thanks for sharing.