Dutch study proves kids grow out of gender dysphoria

[Hoardasurass]

A 15 year long dutch study has shown that gender dysphoria is temporary in most kids, I'm wondering how the activists will try and explain it 🤔

EXCL: Most kids grow out of desire to change sex, study suggests https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-13263725/trans-kids-change-sex-adults-study.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton

V interesting and thanks for sharing.

Some research at last. Thank fuck for that!

I think it's great that people will stand up and say "a desire to be the opposite sex does not make you transgender" just as much as the people who hammered it home that "being transgender does not require having gender dysphoria".

It's almost as if having the definition of "a gender identity that doesn't match sex" when no matches of sex and gender can even be specified, is unworkable.

We're all under the trans umbrella, so it makes sense to look at specific aspects of that, as this study has done.

I just looked up the DSM5 criteria for gender dysphoria, and it's all about a desire to have a body of the opposite sex. I'm not sure in what way that is different from a wish to be the opposite sex.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK577212/table/pediat_transgender.T.dsm5_criteria_for_g/

Ok so the study shows that over 15 years the vast majority of kids who said they wanted to be the opposite sex grow out of it without intervention?

Fantastic news. I can't wait for the day when doctors, parents, teachers and social workers recognise that these feelings will ease and support children while waiting for them to resolve on their own without doing any harm to a healthy body.

You'd be surprised how many doctors are GC. Thank goodness. And the silent majority is starting to push back.

Females are remarkably higher than males until they reach the age of 25.

No surprises there for all us 'tomboys'. Haven't we been saying this all along. Let girls be themselves and they will eventually grow into themselves.

This - how horrific for them and their kids who now might be too concerned for their parents welfare to detransition.
All of which proves the counsellors/ psychologists/ medics who encouraged transitioning should be held accountable under the law for ignoring / not sufficiently seeking out evidence to support their confirmatory approach - only then will this stop.

I'm sure I've seen this Dutch study before. Shame no one is taking any notice of it then?

Also did it not say in the study that the amount of people wanting surgery massively decreased after the law changed to say that you didn't need to have surgery to be legally classed as the opposite gender. So they're not that opposed to being biologically male or female...

The publication is very recent - February 2024. I think I saw somewhere a Dutch article covering it?

I don't mean to contradict you, and I agree it needs to be circulated more. Especially relevant for school.

“which is not remotely sufficient for a diagnosis of gender dysphoria”

Not yet, perhaps; but these kids are soon schooled by the internet on exactly what to say to receive such a diagnosis. Read the testimony of detransitioners sometime.

They weren’t following up patients? I thought this study was just taking a sample of the general population?

I don’t like words like ‘proved’. Science doesn’t work like that.

Science works on hypotheses which are tested and are abandoned or become theories. And tbeories become stronger or weaker depending on how much more data or evidence or experimentation supports, or undermines, that theory.

This study would appear to be data to support the theory that gender incongruence is not fixed ( and must be medically supported) but often resolves over time.

So much good news on FWR this morning!

Indeed. There will be vicious doubling-down, to sooth the cognitive dissonance.

I am active in fighting gender ideology, which I despise, and normally argue against Dadjokes ( I’m a constant name changer). But on this he has a point.

This research is, if I read it correctly and I’ve only quickly skimmed the abstract so may be wrong, not on a patient group. So you can’t conclude from this that those who get as far as being assessed as suitable for medical transition would have the same rate of return to gender congruence.

It does however, add another piece of data to support those who argue that children should not immediately be affirmed, and that there is high correlation between being gay and lesbian and experiencing gender incongruence.

I imagine there are all sorts of complications of doing this work with a patient group given the indoctrination, for want if a better word, targeted at children and families. Obviously that work should still be done, but the methodology in this research also offers an interesting angle.

i do think, whatever side of the debate one is on, that there is a need to honestly look at what data actually evidenced or not. Nor should what someone says be instantly dismissed just because you are normally opposed to them.

Well we all know this. As a teenager back in the 1980's I wanted to be an animal rights activist, a goth and live in a hippie commune. I was obsessed and militant about it for 3 years, I was incredibly self absorbed and difficult to be around and wanted everyone to bend to my way of thinking but guess what I grew out of it and now look back at that time with a certain amount of embarrassment. Luckily my parents and grandparents knew this was just a stage and stood firm refusing to let me run off to join the commune. Gender confusion is just today's trend. Let's revisit this conversation in 30 years time and see what angst/phase teenagers are having then.

I was literally saying the same thing to my sister the other day. When I was child and teenager, I was labelled a tom boy. I hated dresses and anything girly. I didn't even like being around girls. I wanted to play with my brother and his friends it just seemed easier. As a teenager I had a group of girlfriends but I was still not feminine in the typical sense. I hated dressing feminine because I couldn't cope with the male attention it attracted. I also remember seeing the power and priviledges men seemed to have a feeling jealous. This is around the time I started to get told things like, "it's different for women", "women shouldn't do this and that" etc. I started to see the inequalities and was convinced that in my "next life" I would wish to come back as a man. But in my 20s that changed and I started to see how amazing it is to be female. And now as a woman and mother I would not have it any other way. I am also leaning more into being feminine and allowing people to look after me. There is not just one way to be a woman. Just because you are masculine or boyish or yearn to be another sex doesn't necessarily mean you are or should be straight away. I am please that trans rights are progressing and people are getting more nuanced about gender but i urge caution when it comes to children. I recognise that there are genuinely some children who are trans (not just struggling with gender norms like I did) need support. But we can't affirm or encourage every child who is struggling with gender to change sex before 18.

The OP correctly stated what the study had shown.

The poster you reference created a straw man, by stating that the study did not show something that it had not purported to show, and which the OP had not claimed that it showed.

(I would also add that his premise is wrong, because many kids have been offered medication, especially in the US, without meeting DSM criteria for gender dysphoria)

If you are as familiar this forum as you say, you will be familiar with this poster's constant attempts to derail. These kind of straw man tactics are tediously common. Probably best not to enable them.

I think I'm still a tom boy. I still hate make up and fashion. Don't like dresses or high heels or bothering with curling/straighteners or anything like that. Also really wished I was male growing up - didn't have to worry about getting pregnant if you had sex, didn't have regular, very painful, periods, didn't have to plan to go out, ie have a shower, shave legs, wash hair. Didn't get judged at wearing the same clothes for day and evening. Had pockets! Had money and therefore freedom. No expectations placed for having to do household chores or looking after children, including not your own. Now I'm going through the menopause and still wished I was male so I didn't have to deal with the sweats and insomnia but you know what? I have never, ever identified as a male. All I want is to not suffer because I'm female.

I have never, ever identified as a male. All I want is to not suffer because I'm female.

That just sums it up for me too.

The chief peddlers of hormones to young people would like a word

https://www.gendergp.com/not-all-trans-people-experience-gender-dysphoria/

The OP’s thread title was “Dutch study proves kids grow out of gender dysphoria.” The study does not measure gender dysphoria according to the recognised definition of gender dysphoria, therefore it doesn’t prove what OP claims it proves. It does not even purport to show what OP says it does.

it’s an interesting, useful and well conducted study as far as I can see - there is no need to over egg the results for ideological reasons.