KjK "insane rant" thread 2

[AdamRyan]

First thread filled up just as it was getting interesting

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5036512-kjks-insane-rant

So let's keep it going. My characterisation if the two basic positions are:

1)KJK is a stone cold legend, haters gonna hate but many women will give her cash to bathe in champagne

2. KJK is taking right wing positions for clicks and cash, most recently criticising a doctors conference to stay relevant.

Happy to discuss further. There are some particular posts I want to respond to which I will c&p below

I think I must be on your version!

Except when she says "What we know is, that throughout the United kingdom at this second, what we know is that there's grooming gangs in Telford, a young woman that never actually really made it to the mainstream news, wasn't a big story, was cut up, and I think she was put in sort of meat that was sold for human consumption. We know that there are grooming gangs, we know that there are vast numbers of men involved in these grooming gangs, and we know that there's weird cover up stuff going on that only makes sense if the other people in power are also raping children."

Apparently in that case her style isn't clear, it's youtube

And as if by magic I cross posted with this gem:

Also she is vibrant and attractive and has no issue with dressing in conventionally feminine ways - again - which turns off those who prefer a pair of DMs and and a side buzz cut to signal their rebel credentials.

Do you seriously think women are so shallow that how someone dresses is what causes other women to dislike them? That's very misogynistic.

FWIW I'm a very feminine dresser myself. Her style has absolutely no bearing on what I think about her.

In the same way as I don't think men vote for Penny Mordaunt because they fancy her, or that successful women got their jobs because their male boss wanted to shag them.

Someone asked how this board had changed. There's a perfect example. That is such an anti-feminist thing to say. Old FWR would have handed Someone their arse for saying something so inherently sexist. New FWR doesn't bat an eyelid because it suits their narrative.

It's called confirmation bias and means you pay more attention to views that align with yours and discount those that don't. It can be a way to protect yourself from cognitive dissonance too (the feeling of discomfort when someone presents evidence that is contradictory to a core belief).

If you feel like you are on a completely different thread you must have it quite badly in relation to this topic.

Someone asked how this board had changed. There's a perfect example. That is such an anti-feminist thing to say. Old FWR would have handed Someone their arse for saying something so inherently sexist. New FWR doesn't bat an eyelid because it suits their narrative.

This.

?

I’m still waiting for an answer to a question J asked you several pages ago.

I wasn't complaining about anything. Merely posting my reflections on the last two threads.

I don't know why we should all be expected to agree. But it seems disagreement is not allowed on the topic of KJKs stone cold hero-ness.

Here’s a recap.

Is Nasir Afzal Far Right?

Is Shaista Gohir Far Right?

I am getting to the point of ignoring rude questions or those based on a strawman of " you think this". Or maybe I missed it in a fast moving thread. Feel free to ask again.

Maybe I should do an AMA

Confirmation bias works the other way too Adam.

I'd say my view is we are at the point where noone can agree on KJKs main messages, what she does and why she does it.

Apart from letting women speak, you mean?

Do you think she should control what they say? Or give them a script? Or maybe do a dress rehearsal for everyone?

When she sells merch with the slogan Be the Billboard, do you think she should tell everyone what they need to say, or how to put the message across?

Why do you want to stop thousands of women speaking?

What's in it for you? Who else is going to do what she does? You?

Do you seriously think women are so shallow that how someone dresses is what causes other women to dislike them? That's very misogynistic.

Haha!! we've had people complaining about her nails, her hair, her fictitious education (was that you?), And paying off her mortgage. And that she's got fan girls who think she's a leader.

Some women are just popular, Adam, they are allowed, you know.

Good grief. No it was not me.
Some women are just popular, Adam, they are allowed, you know.
Are you 15? Is this the level of discourse now?

Obviously. Which is why I'm spending so much time trying to unpick it

I don't think I'm experiencing the same level of cognitive dissonance though. It doesn't make me angry when people question me, it makes me think. I'm not being forced to resort to trying to get people off the thread because what they are saying is so threatening.

Seriously.
You can't have it both ways. If she's just "giving women a microphone" then yes, I'm sure plenty of women would and have done that. I said on the last thread that the original speakers corner thing wasn't even her.

She learnt what she learnt from "women speaking" on mumsnet. That's because Justine/MNHQ gave us all the space to have those conversations when everyone else was banning them. I don't see you being so zealous in defending them on here. I don't see KJK giving anyone else any credit for what they contributed, in fact she seems to attack them and fall out with them.

If she's some kind of unique and inspirational leader to you, then just say that and stop hiding under the faux modesty of "she isn't a leader/she isn't running speaking tours".

I think a Monty Python quote might be apt for how I am currently feeling: "she is not the messiah, she's a very naughty person"

Oh OK. Those were in the "ridiculous question" category. But as you've asked twice.
I don't know them so how would I know. And I don't want to derail the thread by talking about them.

Belittling women who dare to challenge the status quo and advocate for women and girls, including calling adult women "naughty girls", is hardly good debate imo

This is utterly pointless.

Between confirmation bias on all sides, and the difficulty of having a conversation with multiple people at once it’s just a messy bad tempered brawl.

I’m an optimist and generally work to understand people’s perspective and assume their position makes sense to them.
Today however-
Sea-lions, I see sea-lions.

I posted them back when you were smearing everyone who had observed that on street grooming gangs were disproportionately made up of men from particular ethnic groups as far right.

Nazir Afzal was the CPS prosecutor who convicted the Rochdale offenders and Baroness Gohir is chair of the UK Muslim Women’s Network.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazir_Afzal

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaista_Gohir,_Baroness_Gohir

You were asking for evidence of non-far right people commenting on the ethnic origins and and religious beliefs of grooming gangs and I posted these, which you ignored (almost as if you aren’t actually interested in the opinions of British Muslims!)

And it was circa page 2 or 3 so definitely not a ‘derail’.

How am I belittling her?

And that was referring to some posters acting as if she's the messiah. As if she arrived fully formed, sent by God to spread "the message" that women = adult human female. It makes me laugh. She's just a human being, with strengths and weaknesses like all of us.

I feel like I've made this point before. I don't think its possible to sea lion one's own thread.

Also I'm not the person asking endless questions.

Of course, it's always possible that wasn't aimed at me.

Now you are belittling the women who think she’s alright/fine/ok/quite like her/appreciate her.

Absolutely no one thinks she’s ’The Messiah’.

I don't think I did.
I asked for evidence that Muslims are disproportionately involved in grooming gangs. Which as yet noone has provided.

I'm not answering a "do you think x is far right?" Because 1) how would I know, unless I knew them, and 2) it's not a constructive question. It's the kind that's asked as a gotcha.

I'm not derailing back onto grooming gangs. I've said all I need to on that, my perspective is clear to everyone and equally now I'm much clearer about other people's. And everyone is entitled to their opinion (even if that opinion isn't backed up by evidence).

Actions speak louder than words in lots of cases.