Elite British sportswomen would be uncomfortable with transgender women competing in female categories in their sport - Survey

[IwantToRetire]

More than 100 elite British sportswomen have told the BBC they would be uncomfortable with transgender women competing in female categories in their sport.

But many have expressed fears over sharing their opinion publicly because of concerns they would be seen as discriminatory.

One told the BBC "your career is over" if you speak on the subject, while another said: "You can receive abuse if you support it or don't support it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

There were also feelings that there "should be a place in sport for transgender people" and calls for more research and open categories in sports.

Over the past couple of years, a raft of sports have banned transgender women from competing in elite women's sport because of concerns.

Among the concerns from athletes was that having transgender women in female categories was like "going back in time and putting women at the bottom of the pile again", and that it created an "unfair playing field" and could be "harmful".

Full story here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/68564019

Worth noting that quite a small number of response, out of 615 sent the survey only 143 reponsed! Evidence of their fear of commenting, or lack of trust in the BBC to keep their participation confidential?

It’s ok for the pp to use male. Not everyone uses gender ideology to underpin language

Quite so!

All sporting bodies exclude men from the women's categories. If you mean trans women, say so, otherwise you are likely to engender confusion and cross moderation boundaries.

Oh come off it, Dadjoke, that’s feeble even from you. Everyone knows what adult males are. There’s no confusion. Anger at injustice, yes, and sympathy for the women who’ve been prevented from competing with their peers.

I'd be interested to know how popular the Open categories are with "trans women", I saw a TV article a few weeks ago about an LGBT+ inclusive football team, there was a lack of trans women present. It almost seemed as if the trans women had no interest in competing if they had to compete against biological men. Very strange that they only seemed to be interested in competing purely against biological women, it's almost as if they liked using their male physical advantage over women. Very strange.

There was a good discussion about trans issues on the Fell Running UK Facebook page this morning, started by a trans woman who suggested that now a woman has completed the Barkley marathons, it's time to do away with sex categories in running. The responses were overwhelmingly against this, with only one or two "be kind, why are you scared of trans women". There was some excellent debunking of myths and sharing of solid data. I say was, because disappointingly it got deleted even though from what I saw it was a respectful and well-behaved discussion.

Still heartening to see that the fell running community has little time for this nonsense.

Is challenging cheating mediocre men really attacking a minority?

What about this attack on the women and girls who get pushed aside so these average males muscle in?

That report is just a bunch of selected anecdotes - no quantative evidence of anything whatsoever.

//

So, based on feelz only then? Interesting how demands to validate some people based on feelings of gender is generally ok though.

Women and girls matter.

It’s anecdotes collected by an organisation which campaigns against trans inclusion. The BBC survey is much more useful.

It's qualitative responses in addition to quantitative 10:1 survey results.

That’s such an interesting take on the situation.

Only .01% of the population are transwomen, that’s tiny.

I wonder why it is then, that so many sports have transwomen medal winners? I mean, I can reel of the names of such people in pretty much every sport. Every category of sport from pool to swimming to athletics and weightlifting- some distances even having all three medals taken by transwomen.

Transwomen must be exceptional athletes to be so well represented at an elite level.

@DadJoke
So which of the testimonies did you find most moving?

Males such as @DadJoke will champion the unfairness but women and girls lose out

It's such a bizarre position to take isn't it? Charitably, I assume it is just a wind-up. Jasmin's achievement is extraordinary (as was her Spine record) but the fact that she is the only woman out of 20 completers over the history of the race speaks for itself. She's a generational talent - Lazarus called it 5 years ago when he predicted she would be the first woman to complete.

So women are over 50% of the population, trans women are, according to you, 0.01% of the population but 5/11 of the football team linked to above are trans women.
That is a massive huge over representation rather than a teeny-weeny minority that will never affect the vast majority of women in sport.
It would matter if it was one tw in one team because males bodies against female bodies in a contact sport is dangerous so every woman in every team they play against is at risk of injury. In almost all sports its unfair but when a tiny minority is taking almost half the spaces that should be for women it's not something you can try to brush under the carpet as statistically irrelevant.

Its amazing how quickly you can catch up on a thread when you tune out the usual whatabouterrers.

And would be even quicker, and a more positive productive thread if they were never responded to.

It's envy. They want to erase her achievement as soon as possible.

You are arguing with a position I am not taking. It is up to the sporting bodies.

However, there are hundreds of amateur rugby and football clubs which include trans women, and no evidence that they are dangerous.

However, there are hundreds of amateur rugby and football clubs which include trans women, and no evidence that they are dangerous.
None?

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/clubs-boycott-matches-against-womens-team-with-trans-player-3sxh7hz3n

Well indeed!

@DadJoke

However, there are hundreds of amateur rugby and football clubs which include trans women, and no evidence that they are dangerous.

The danger posed by specific individuals is not the issue. It's the risk of male bodies hurting female bodies which should be guarded against.
There is so much evidence that males playing rugby against women is dangerous that World Rugby, who undertook a full review with evidence from experts about the risk of injuries, have banned men who claim to be women from competing in the women's competitions (if those men have gone through any part of puberty). Unfortunately, this ban only holds at international level.

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/player-welfare/guidelines/transgender/women

There's lots of detail in there about the physiological differences between men and women.

You genuinely believe that bigger, heavier, greater bone density, different musculature male bodies aren't a danger to female bodies in contact sports?
If you really, honestly think there wouldn't be any reason why mixed sex boxing shouldn't go ahead then I just despair. Why do you think female categories exist?

Are all men as totally oblivious to the differences between their bodies and those of women or have you lead a particularly sheltered life?

I hope, really hope, that the Paris Olympics show this ridiculous situation up for the appalling affront to Women’s sport that it has become. It is eight years since Rio and the infamous Women’s 800 m where all three medals were awarded to genetic men and the female athletes -who complained about the dismissal of their years of dedication and training being devalued to assuage male egos - were essentially told to stfu. I think, and believe, that attitudes have hardened, that more commentators, Olympic officials, National Sports Bodies , former athletes and current athletes themselves will have the courage and the backing to stand up against this blatant cheating. Because that is what it is, cheating.

(My dream would be the Princess Royal stepping up to the plate and making her feelings known, I find it hard to believe that she thinks including genetic males in female sports is fair and in keeping with Olympic ideals.)

There was an excellent discussion on woman’s hour today about men’s hands being weapons in their own right. It contrasted the aggravating factor of using a weapon counting against women, while men are able to kill without using a weapon.

viques

Nobody who is making money from presenting, commentating, doing interviews or competing at the Games on mainstream TV or radio will say anything to jeopardise their income stream, sadly. Only Sharron Davies might have and I don't think she will be there. Plus they are all horribly misinformed and convinced that we are just being mean. The framing is always one of poor persecuted men who just want to be women and where is the harm in that?

Smaller media outlets may be vocal but on the whole sports fans are not keen on raising anything they see as "political".

I really hope I'm wrong.

The Princess Royal and her daughter compete in one of the very few sports where men and women compete against each other so I'm sure if she did stick her head above the parapet she would be dismissed as a hypocrite.