Elite British sportswomen would be uncomfortable with transgender women competing in female categories in their sport - Survey

[IwantToRetire]

More than 100 elite British sportswomen have told the BBC they would be uncomfortable with transgender women competing in female categories in their sport.

But many have expressed fears over sharing their opinion publicly because of concerns they would be seen as discriminatory.

One told the BBC "your career is over" if you speak on the subject, while another said: "You can receive abuse if you support it or don't support it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

There were also feelings that there "should be a place in sport for transgender people" and calls for more research and open categories in sports.

Over the past couple of years, a raft of sports have banned transgender women from competing in elite women's sport because of concerns.

Among the concerns from athletes was that having transgender women in female categories was like "going back in time and putting women at the bottom of the pile again", and that it created an "unfair playing field" and could be "harmful".

Full story here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/68564019

Worth noting that quite a small number of response, out of 615 sent the survey only 143 reponsed! Evidence of their fear of commenting, or lack of trust in the BBC to keep their participation confidential?

The

The EqA allows sporting bodies to decide - I think that's a fair approach.

The trouble is, sporting bodies are as timid or callous as anyone else. They let women get shoved out of the way because they don’t want to annoy angry aggressive people.

One for @DadJoke from Jon Pike’s Twitter, from the survey. Women athletes being surveyed are afraid to express their views. That’s how authoritarian this movement is.

no special categories required.

then why is there a para olympics?

They really aren't, judging by their choices.

@maltravers the survey was anonymous, to the extent that the atheletes needed to contact the BBC independently if they wanted to be quoted on the record.

What do you think about the level of fear the women are showing @DadJoke ?

Bearing in mind we are now apparently subject to the Thought Police (why thank you, Humza Yousef you wally).

The open category is interesting but it wouldn't work, would it.

You'd assume that TW would have the option to play in either the men's category or the open.

And one would again assume that women would also have the option of playing in the womens or open. (and men in the men's and open)

Men are going to choose men's. Trans and Non binary will choose open

And women will be socially pressured into choosing open or be branded transphobic.

I would hope they would all choose women.

But then who are the 'open' going to compete against as I don't think there are enough to compete against each other.

The only real solution is you compete as the biological sex you were born as. Full stop

Yes, I noticed that article. I am glad that the survey took place but the BBC writer really had to work very hard to ameliorate, minimise and tiptoe around the findings that they didn’t want.

Otherwise who knows what would have happened?! 🙄

Because disability affects athletic performance.

quite like how being male bodied can affect athletic performance really.

People don't want to speak publicly about this issue, on either side, because either way they will become involved in drama. It's also not a good look to be perceived as attacking a minority.

But those elite atheletes who have spoken about it don't particularly seem to have suffered on balance. Trans women are 0.01% of the population and really don't have as much power as you make out, and transgender atheletes receive a lot of abuse than people who want to exclude them. If you don't pass, your entire life is coloured by people's attitudes and unlike allies, they can't escape from that.

I've seen it done as a choice between a women's category and an open category. So no straight men's category. Essentially men, trans women and any trans men who have taken cross sex hormones are in the open category and biological women who haven't taken any cross sex hormones are in the women's category. Simpler than multiple categories.

@DadJoke

They really are pushing women aside to accommodate men.
Only a minority of sports governing bodies are excluding most men from women's categories at all and within that minority, only 1 excludes all men - that is British Triathlon.

Look at this report from Fair Play for Women on the effect that men in women's sport is having on women.
https://fairplayforwomen.com/new-report-how-trans-inclusion-in-sport-is-harming-women-and-girls/

Males claiming to be women do apparently have the power to cause sports governing bodies including Fifa and the IOC to upend women's sport in order to accommodate their wants.

Well, I think that fucking furious is a far more accurate description of how Riley Gaines and the other female swimmers cheated out of places and wins feel about LThomas.

I find it very hard to believe that elite female athletes would simply be “concerned” about TW stealing their sports, accolades and opportunities.

He's grasping at straws. A 10:1 ratio is a lot more than 'probably', especially in an environment where women are scared of speaking out.

It's not about 'attacking a minority' ffs. It's about defending the rights of a disadvantaged majority. (Women are disadvantaged in sports relative to males by basic dimorphism, structural sexism especially around families and other cultural issues).

Oh look, what a surprise, women having to tiptoe around biological men again.

You can be a kind person and still be furious about something.

I wonder if the male athletes are told they need to be kind and not have big feelings too?

That report is just a bunch of selected anecdotes - no quantative evidence of anything whatsoever.

All sporting bodies exclude men from the women's categories. If you mean trans women, say so, otherwise you are likely to engender confusion and cross moderation boundaries.

@WhyDidISayThatHuh I don't understand why you are saying the open category "wouldn't work". It works, and has been working for well over a year in cycling, triathlon, swimming and several other sports. The rest of your post is just nonsense - none of that has happened.

@DadJoke
Don't pretend you don't understand what I mean. You know perfectly well that men who claim to be women are men. You admitted it upthread with your attempted "gotcha" example of male cleaners in women's toilets.

Yes, correct, the report is a collation of testimony of the harm done to women. Do you think this is irrelevant to the question we are discussing?

I was merely observing that athletes (of either sex) don't tend to get furious about things -their mindset in adversity is generally extreme stoicism. The girls who are in the "be kind" camp get it from peers/parents/social media. They certainly aren't getting it from their coach.

That makes sense to me - I have no direct experience, but from the little I know of footballers, it seems as if a phlegmatic temperament is a big part of the reason for their progression to elite level. Continually swinging between highs and lows would be very draining. I'm also thinking of Kipling's poem If... I find their stoicism extraordinary, but there you go! Doesn't mean that they think men in women's sport is fine and dandy, of course and we can be furious on their behalf.

Soigneur's observation makes the 'anecdotes' that DadJoke is so dismissive of all the more striking.