Elite British sportswomen would be uncomfortable with transgender women competing in female categories in their sport - Survey

[IwantToRetire]

More than 100 elite British sportswomen have told the BBC they would be uncomfortable with transgender women competing in female categories in their sport.

But many have expressed fears over sharing their opinion publicly because of concerns they would be seen as discriminatory.

One told the BBC "your career is over" if you speak on the subject, while another said: "You can receive abuse if you support it or don't support it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't."

There were also feelings that there "should be a place in sport for transgender people" and calls for more research and open categories in sports.

Over the past couple of years, a raft of sports have banned transgender women from competing in elite women's sport because of concerns.

Among the concerns from athletes was that having transgender women in female categories was like "going back in time and putting women at the bottom of the pile again", and that it created an "unfair playing field" and could be "harmful".

Full story here https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/68564019

Worth noting that quite a small number of response, out of 615 sent the survey only 143 reponsed! Evidence of their fear of commenting, or lack of trust in the BBC to keep their participation confidential?

Something that’s surprised me since becoming interested in this issue is that many people (especially men) simply don’t realise how much stronger the average man is compared to the average woman.

fortunately there aren’t ‘hundreds’ of rugby and football clubs that include trans women in women’s competition

there is, however, loads of evidence that men competing against women in contact sports is dangerous - it’s nonsense to suggest otherwise

Worth noting that quite a small number of response, out of 615 sent the survey only 143 reponsed! Evidence of their fear of commenting...

That's the real problem. The inclusion policies formulated by each sport's governing body mean it's impossible to speak out without fear of sanction.

Which means that no-one speaks out.

Which is then taken as evidence that there's not a problem.

You’re relying on the recipient organisation of the survey not having a TRA who will expose your (quite legal and reasonable thank you) views. If I was on my way to the Olympics, I wouldn’t be keen to take that risk either.

Or a data breach, because we know that they never happen.

I am heartened by remembering that it was the threat of women cyclists refusing to race that apparently pushed British Cycling to take a stance against transwomen racing in women’s events.

In British Cycling, not a single one that I am aware of. Emily Bridges has refused to race since the rule change. Emily was racing as a cat 1 (the category below elite) before transitioning so after taking cross-sex hormones probably wouldn’t be able to hang with the cat 1 hitters any more but would still likely be more than handy in a cat 2 race. Not sure why Emily is refusing to race…

Have you noticed that they never want to compete in women’s gymnastics! 😉

I don’t think Emily is allowed to race in womens races now, and has stated that they are worried about racing against men in open categories in case they get hurt. Oh the irony!

Uncomfortable?!? Wtf does that mean ? Cheated and livid yes!

This is such bollocks isn’t it? Women race against men in the open races (and the men’s races before open was a thing) every bloody weekend if their race gets cancelled due to lack of entries. Emily is no more likely to get hurt in an open race then a women’s race (which Emily has never actually raced in as the rules were changed in the Nick of time). If someone makes a mistake at 50kph in the pack it’s going to be meat grinder time regardless of the sex of the riders currently doing cartwheels around you.

Another example of women being punished if they object. No wonder women athletes are afraid to speak out.

Oh dear,tough shit etc.

Article in the Telegraph on a big survey

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/athletics/2024/04/17/elite-athletes-call-for-biological-sex-over-gender-in-sport/

https://archive.ph/lcyFT paywall

Women think women's categories should be for biological females, especially in contact sports or where there is a physical advantage, but was transbods to still be able to compete. So, third categories or women and an open. I don't know where that leaves ftm who are or have taken testosterone.

DSDs weren't mentioned, which is fair enough. I think they're a different kettle of fish. People with medical conditions shouldn't be lumped in with trans. Although there may be overlap.

I suspect the fact some of the biggest names in women's cycling were affected - such as Dame Laura Kenny and Katie Archibald - also helped.

Dame Laura was also instrumental in saving this race (together with crowdfunding) after the male sponsor withdrew funding at the last minute following British Cycling's transgender stance: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-61833083 She is a complete star and she leaves a huge legacy, both in terms of her personal impact on women's sport and in everything she's done off the track too.

DSDs weren't mentioned, which is fair enough. I think they're a different kettle of fish. People with medical conditions shouldn't be lumped in with trans. Although there may be overlap.

Huge overlap. Essentially the same thing when it comes to males with most DSDs:

Males✅
Been through male puberty ✅
“Identify” as women ✅
Have all male advantages when it comes to sport that reducing testosterone doesn’t remove ✅
Have male entitlement to think they should just be allowed to be in women’s category despite knowing they have male advantage ✅
Have stolen prize money, medals and success from women ✅

Thanks, icake

I suppose it's good that the study was done, actually canvassing female athletes, but I have serious issues with it.
Why can't they talk about MALE athletes? The transness in neither here nor there.

Clearly some of the athletes, younger ones especially, are still in Be Kind mode:
However, in the new academic study, which is believed to be the largest of its kind, 81 per cent of sportswomen also said that inclusivity for transgender athletes in sport needed to be improved.
Why, is my first question. GI is not a relevant factor when it comes to sport. Why not have special measures to include Scorpios, or fans of Taylor Swift?
Also how, would be my next question. Other than the standard male/female or open/female.

I'm so tired of this nonsense.
It doesn't make any sense to just ban male athletes at elite level, because male athletes lower down will clog up the pathway for potential stars and spoil the competition for fun or semi-serious athletes. I'm suspicious that a study like this is just part of a move to repurpose the inclusion argument to permit males in women's sport except where it's high profile - away from the cameras. Men still get their validation at the expense of women and girls who don't have a platform or a voice and are not expected to care about winning or places.

Male athletes with DSDs are the same kettle of fish, really - it's just that they get into female sport via the route of their DSD. There is no justification at all to include them because, whichever DSD they have, all of them have male athletic performance advantage, which is the factor the female category is intended to exclude. CAIS males don't go through puberty but still have an inbuilt advantage over women/girls.

I don't like the impression I get that non-elite women's sports can be thrown like a bone to satisfy the tras. It's elitist appropriately enough. I really admire the current and former athletes who recognise that. As for the others, where do they think elite athletes come from? Especially in women's sports.

I was perhaps to kind re. DSDs. But I still think they're a separate issue. The likes of Caster Semenya have no place in women's sports though.

DadJoke · 26/03/2024 12:17

People don't want to speak publicly about this issue, on either side, because either way they will become involved in drama.

That's rubbish, the trans competitors are happy to be loud and vocal, see "Emily" Bridges and them's histrionic rants about it. It's only women who stay quiet on the subject, because they are intimidated.

For these purposes, I don't see how the difference matters. They're still male and shouldn't be in women's sport. The good thing about an Open category is that a CAIS male who looked like a woman wouldn't have to explain why s/he was competing against all the guys.

I think, to me, the main reason for the separation is that too often DSDs are used in the wider issue as a 'gotcha'. I think it's more consistent to always recognise that DSDs are not trans.

Ok, I see what you mean. But transness is not the reason for exclusion, it's the fact of their maleness. Forced teamers are gonna forced-team, there's nothing we can do about that.

I think that force teaming is the entirety of the problem 😊

I see that "Dr Joanna Harper" is quoted doing his usual disingenuous nonsense, with a link to an interview. Where's the equivalent link to an interview with, say, Jon Pike?

"In 2021, an 18-month review developed by Sport England, Sport Scotland, Sport Northern Ireland, Sport Wales and UK Sport concluded that "testosterone suppression is unlikely to guarantee fairness between transgender women and natal females in gender-affected sports".
It also said that there are "retained differences in strength, stamina and physique between the average woman compared with the average transgender woman or non-binary person registered male at birth".
However, last year, Loughborough University researcher Joanna Harper - who is a transgender woman herself - told BBC Radio 5 Live it "isn't clear" how much athletic advantage transgender women retain."

Yes, 100 out of a total of 615 would actually be statistically significant enough to draw conclusions from that full cohort (I.e. that 90% of the 615 likely feel the same way).