An MSP (Murdo Fraser) threatening legal action against Police Scotland after his twitter/x post was logged as a hate incident

[StealthSpinach]

I couldn’t see another thread on this - just wondering if a male complaining about ‘hate incidents’ registered against him will produce a different result compared with all the female complaints that have been dismissed.

An MSP is threatening to take legal action against Police Scotland after a tweet he posted criticising the Scottish Government’s transgender policy was logged as a ‘hate incident’.
Veteran Conservative Murdo Fraser said the force had ‘behaved not just outrageously, but unlawfully’ after learning that his name appears in police files for expressing a political view.
A trans activist reported the post on X, formerly Twitter, to Police Scotland whose officers decided it did not amount to a crime but should be classed as a ‘hate incident’ which will remain on record – even though no law had been broken.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13233691/Scots-Torys-police-row-hate-tweet-claim.html

The Times Leader today features this new law. I had not realised that a network of "third party centers" for reporting this has been set up, many on University campuses.
The Act refers to words used in performance, but the Diligent and Distinguished Police Scotland have already said they will not prosecute actors and comedians. Only for Religion is there a specific mention of protecting free speech.
The Police have already announced that a lack of resources will prevent them investigating minor crimes such as burglary. But will investigate every report of 'hate'.

David Kennedy Scottish Police Federation general secretary has branded the law a recipe for disaster.

It has occurred to me that a person wary of being recorded on the ‘non hate crimes register’ would be well advised to avoid explaining to any politician or their campaigners on the doorstep or elsewhere why they don’t have your vote. Well done SNP! More silence from those who despair of what you’ve done to Scottish democracy.

Perhaps I shall just hand over Ian MacWhirter’s excellent piece in the Times this morning.

Only for Religion is there a specific mention of protecting free speech.
I thought belief in the immutability of sex was a protected.
Just to be on the safe side, can we set up the Church of the IoS?

This is going to be an avalanche of unholy mess and the SNP have unleashed it knowing full well what they're doing, despite a whole lot of people trying to explain to them why it's wrong.

It will be, in practice, a small group of unstable activists who will feverishly report everyone and everything everywhere, and it will largely be used to suppress, control and intimidate people from naming reality, defending women's rights in law, resisting the abuse of women, and safeguarding children. Many people are going to be embrangled with police, whose reputation as an establishment for enthusiastic misogyny is well known. Well off males with strong public presence don't have a lot to worry about. Ordinary women will. As we all know, this stuff never stands up in court, but the two years it takes for some nutjob to get you in a court room will wreck your life, your health and your finances. And that's enough to satisfy some thoroughly unpleasant person who wanted to control and punish you.

The Scottish Nasty Party should not have been allowed by Westminster to do this. It's another very big failing on the part of the Tories to add to their list. And Labour would not only fail to do anything, they would enthusiastically join hands and jump in too. Vote Labour and we'll see the same batshit in England as has been caused in Scotland and Wales.

Does anyone have a share token for the times article?

Wasn't Scotland's glorious leader recently attempting to persuade everyone that the act was being misinterpreted and Things Like This Would Never Happen?

I don’t have a share token but it’s here and can be read via the usual archive site: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hate-crime-laws-chilling-effect-is-already-being-felt-j00dzq33n

So you don’t know a hate crime has been registered against you and you can’t appeal it, but it can revealed against you in enhanced disclosure when you’re applying for jobs. Outrageous.

Hopefully this will change at least one of two things.

It is horrific that a non crime hate incident can be recorded against you without you being notified of it at the time.

And that you cannot appeal or clarify the context ever.

Ideally this MSP attack with kill the noncrime hate recording system, as well as this utterly ridiculous reporting hurty feels law.

Its the end of trust or faith in the law. It's an uprecedented attack on justice and society in the UK in modern history.

You can be accused of a crime, with no opportunity for justice, to defend yourself, to plead your case, to do anything at all, even to be informed that someone has informed upon you for their own reasons or due to their own dysfunctionality and difficulties with reality, and carry that penalty in a way that will harm all of your career and working life.

It's appalling. It's in the realms of Germany in the early 30s and I wish I was exaggerating. It's abhorrent. There will be nothing to do but avoid speaking to anyone you do not know well or trust, to avoid committing yourself in writing, and to avoid groups entirely with a reputation of being easy to offend. I have no doubt that MN towers will be hit very swiftly from April 1st by police demands for the personal data held on FWR posters.

I thought that you had to be told who accused you when the plod come calling. Is this not the case here?

Yes

We’re in big trouble. I’m not in Scotland but can get that from here

Archive version of the Times article.
https://archive.is/N8IBg

I don't know, I've wondered this too.

What I very much hope is not the case is that politicians elsewhere are watching with interest to see how far this kind of law can be pushed, and that's why they remain silent on the issue.

As we've said many times, 'gender' is a Macguffin.

It's a vague identity, embedded in a vague law, that effectively means anyone can identify as protected and report anyone else, with no requirement for evidence or threshold. So we have a threat that can be aimed at anyone, and used to threaten or punish as required.

While this seems ridiculous to most people, there will be some who see this as a very useful political tool.

The question has to be asked why. Why would any sane, normal person see this as a desirable, positive thing? Why would they destroy justice and trust in the police in this way? Why would it be a good thing to punish a person without their chance of justice or making a case for themselves with a lifetime consequence, when the chances are very high they did nothing wrong, or what they were accused of never happened?

The only thing I can think of is a wish for a population that is afraid and victimised by the least functional and most aggressive activist members of their society.

In the event of a Non Crime Hate Incident you may never be told you've been accused. This only arose because Fraser was also reported to Parliamentary Standards at the same time.

I also wish you were exaggerating.

I want to reiterate that this Bill was voted for with cross party support, other than the Scottish Conservatives and three very brave Labour MSPs.

Because the law this all rests on is incredibly poor

It harms women and children and the only way to stop people saying that is to use stronger laws. Aggressively so.

But if you submit a SAR to find out if you've been targeted, doesn't that just mean you give the polis a heads-up that you might be a person of interest to them? If, for example, you are a member of SEEN, or support FWS, or the Women's Rights Network, or KPSS, or the LGB Alliance?

McDermid also fears the clause in the Hate Crime and Public Order (Scotland) Act 2021 relating to performances could result in real hate crime being trivialised.
“It’s a very serious issue that’s causing people very serious fear in their lives,” she said.
“[The comedian] Janey Godley has finally left Twitter after being scunnered by the level of abuse and horrendous insults she gets on a daily basis on the platform. That’s the kind of hate speech, frankly, I would like to see the back of.”

Agreed on what women on TwiX endure and yet 'doesn't count' but interested to see this from McDermid given her perspective and seeming lack of ability to foresee the consequences.

“My view of gender politics is you bring people into the tent. Womanhood is a big tent. It embraces me and Kim Kardashian. There’s certainly room in that tent for the trans women I know.”

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/4607716-what-does-val-mcdermid-mean

SNP are a cult. There are no checks and balances- unless you count Patrick Harvie 🤣. They can do anything they want and people will keep voting for them

I've just checked:

1 Tory MSP voted in favour.
All Libdems voted in favour.
All SNP voted in favour, bar 2 absentions.
All Labour voted in favour, bar 3 against and 1 abstention.
All Greens to the surprise of nobody, in favour.

This was a Bill approved by members of all political parties. Of course the SNP wrote the damn thing, but there has been fuck all opposition, apart from the Tories.