An MSP (Murdo Fraser) threatening legal action against Police Scotland after his twitter/x post was logged as a hate incident

[StealthSpinach]

I couldn’t see another thread on this - just wondering if a male complaining about ‘hate incidents’ registered against him will produce a different result compared with all the female complaints that have been dismissed.

An MSP is threatening to take legal action against Police Scotland after a tweet he posted criticising the Scottish Government’s transgender policy was logged as a ‘hate incident’.
Veteran Conservative Murdo Fraser said the force had ‘behaved not just outrageously, but unlawfully’ after learning that his name appears in police files for expressing a political view.
A trans activist reported the post on X, formerly Twitter, to Police Scotland whose officers decided it did not amount to a crime but should be classed as a ‘hate incident’ which will remain on record – even though no law had been broken.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13233691/Scots-Torys-police-row-hate-tweet-claim.html

He has the backing of the Free Speech Union. Not sure if that means financial help with legal costs or just advice and moral support.

do we not think this will collapse overnight as being entirely unworkable? Come April 1 the koolaid nutters will think Christmas has come and will be flooding the Babylon with vexatious complaints by the skipload. This will be literally unmanageable -unless they recruit an entire cadre of admin staff. I dare say there must be a bunch of otherwise unemployable recent graduates from the university of despond with a 2:1 in grievance studies who would jump at the chance.

Why? Because people want the power to do this to other people and they don't really think anyone is going to do it to them. It's an irregular verb. We stand up for what's right. You have controversial opinions. They hate.

I complained on Site Stuff a while ago about using "hate speech" as a reporting tag. I disliked it then and I like it even less now. I hope it isn't going to bite MN on the bum.

They're going to look like an absolute laughing stock, and the media will be all over it.

But, it will still have a chilling effect. Which, to my mind, is the entire point. Shut people up.

Quoting myself. On the other hand, there will definitely be just as many people determined to take it right to the wire.

Perhaps they just won't go after those people.

Yes I must admit I wondered if this will be the new way to get the unemployable out of Mum's basement and into a job. By the million.

😂 at “recent graduates of the university of despond with a 2:1 in grievance studies”.

Thanks, @lonelywater 😂

I wonder how the police will justify going after Mrs Jones, who mentioned that women don't have penises, and Ms Smith, who was caught suggesting that homosexuality meant same sex attracted, who will be nice and easy to destroy the lives of, but stepping around Mr Fraser and Ms Rowling because the press/ court case would be a fricking nightmare?

Next law: ending of FOI

Hang on a minute, I'm sure I read an article recently about a serial rapist in the police that said that because he was only accused of rape and not convicted of it it didn't come up in any pre employment screening checks. So does this mean that what Murdo said would come up in a pre screen but a rape allegation wouldn't? Not saying either should if there isn't a conviction but it does seem a bit mental that saying something someone doesn't like would and being accused of rape wouldn't.

You're doing that thing of looking for basic sanity again.

There ain't any.

The other thing, of course, is that J. K. Rowling has enough rape and death threats to wallpaper her house, which I imagine is on the large side.

And, judging by the posts on her timeline, they are sent by dozens and dozens of different people.

Can she just whack that lot over to the mushroom farm, claim she's non-binary and they need to get cracking.

Cos I'd like to see people dispute the fact that she's non-binary.

Let's go right to that wire.

We could have such fun with what do you mean you can't change your mind? What criteria? How do you know I'm lying? Now you're calling me a liar? I'm dialling the mushroom farm.

I think we should all put non binary in our profiles anyway. It's not something anyone can prove.

This is existing law, its not the new HCA.

If only JKR had the money and resources to give her lawyers her twitter login details, and instructions to report every single threat and harassment to police Scotland, and request an incident number for each one from the police.
JKR resides in Scotland so under the new law every threat and harassment she's received counts as a crime in Scotland.

One thing the police can do on the spot is decide is that something isn't worth the effort, and as soon as you stop speaking to them they just move onto the next thing. If however you ask for an incident number they have to give you one, and that process includes recording the incident. If you don't think the police are taking you seriously, make sure to ask for an incident number, don't stop talking until they give you one.

oh, so its going to get worse? Great.

The FSU could put him in touch with a barrister who might work pro bono and no-win-no-fee. But I very much doubt that they would cover the police and court costs in the event of no-win. Those costs would be very substantial, I suspect it's why NCHIs haven't been challenged in court on a human rights basis. Perhaps JKR could bring a case against the Chief Constable responsible for logging the NCHI Willoughby demanded.

I'm afraid so.

A non-crime hate incident is by definition not a crime.

'Stirring up hatred' is a crime punishable by 7 years.

Has anyone seen the training or have information on what this covers?

I feel like we’re deep in Orwell and McCarthy land now

It's on the other thread https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5032028-scottish-hate-crime-bill-information-and-resources

It covers anything. There is no definition, it rests on the perception of the person reporting.

There are protections in the Act on 'reasonable person' grounds, and there are protections for freedom of speech. These make it less likely that people will be convicted.

Police guidelines don't refer to these protections.

They could do the job from Mum's basement. It will all be online, won't it? So not even an increase in time spent in fresh air, daylight, touching grass etc etc. What a world.

I am concerned that the use of community centres, sex shops and mushroom farms in Scotland to log hate crimes may lead to people with like-minded interests being supported and encouraging in making accusations. Perhaps using their exisiting customer base (putting notices in public view, adding newsletter items, etc) shops/centres can help people in their circle make complaints.

Maybe the 2 minute hate will be transformed into the 5min daily clype and report everyone who looked cross-eyed at you even if they were wiping a midge from their eye at the time.

I'm laughing here, but my 91yo Mum comes out with some stuff that would undoubtedly qualify, out of sheer ignorance of what's now acceptable terminology. Let's hope there aren't too many Grievance Studies* graduates in her orbit after 1st April.

*Love it!

I feel really woolly about this but does this mean it's going to risk investigation from Police Scotland if you leave a negative review of something? Could the law possibly be interpreted in such a daft way? Say you've had a shocking Air BnB experience or have been to a Frankie Boyle show?

I don’t know how people are not up in arms over this

I assume it only applies from April 1st? The day full Orwell is invoked