“Trans treatment waiting list a ‘death sentence’”

[NitroNine]

While the title of the thread is the main-page headline on the BBC website, the actual article is - rather less dramatically - titled Transgender patients could face years-long wait for NHS treatment.

It is so grossly offensive to suggest not getting cross sex hormones [paid for by the NHS] = fatal. There absolutely are delays in care that are fatal: people are (for example) dying of cancer, from [complications of] anorexia nervosa, & of treatable cardiac issues.

That coroners are legitimising this idea is ridiculous. In one case, the individual had accessed private care.

The suicides are of course tragic, but they show what’s needed is more investment in mental health services. Not to push the - completely false & irresponsible - narrative that trans people are doomed to die while waiting for treatment.

I think they are stating they hate all gender critical stuff and have come over here to tell us directly about their hate.

That's how I read it anyway after seeing their comment in Chat, which is that they apparently would like to ban GC stuff.

It seems such is their dislike of GC stuff that they've taken the time to come find a thread over here to tell us about their hate directly.

But I'm sure that poster will correct me if I've interpreted their words incorrectly.

Has the headline changed now OP? Considering it goes against Samaritan guidelines, I hope the BBC have reconsidered.

Well it’s nice to see that they’ve made their point so comprehensively, @Boiledbeetle. I’m sure we’ve all enjoyed the nuanced, well evidenced debate.

this is from wiki so who knows how accurate but re: talking/reporting on Suicide, there are conventions that vary but the underlying idea is that reporting suicides can/does lead to more suicides

‘guidelines the World Health Organization[27] and others endorse for coverage of any suicide: use extreme restraint in covering these deaths—keep the word "suicide" out of the headline, don't romanticize the death, and limit the number of stories’

This was the announcement the last time NHS England launched a review into gender services care:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/2020/09/nhs-announces-independent-review-into-gender-identity-services-for-children-and-young-people/

'The NHS has today announced that Dr Hilary Cass OBE, former President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, will lead an independent review into gender identity services for children and young people.'

I think this is in fact very positive news indeed. It's been rinsed through the activist mill, they've cast about to try and post the most emotive, sensationalist take possible, and led with a ridiculously hyperbolic headline.

But a review seems like excellent news.

When you take away WPATH, which the NHS say that they no longer use, what else is there?

The BBC ramping up the rhetoric post puberty blocker decision

They can join the many other TRAs and genderists on SM who are stepping up their reaction

I find there is a pattern to these reactions. There is a lull for a day or so after a significant announcement or occurrence, then complete batshit hyperbole breaks out. I wonder if it's the staff networks and discord groups agreeing the reaction.

Of the many, many things 'trans' 'women' demand people's sympathy for, how come it's never their inability to have children?

Quite a lot of transwomen have fathered children. I mean, given the option, I think I'd be the father rather than mother. Sounds much easier.

> waiting for a point to be made ... >

There have been women mentioning having been to infertility, miscarriage and stillbirth support groups, where a male person with a TQ+ identity has wished to attended and be supported in their grief at having been born with the wrong sort of body to experience pregnancy, alongside people who have experienced the loss of their child.

Edited to add: of course I forgot the male person who simulated an entire pregnancy with lots of SM stuff about it, planning to have a 'stillbirth' experience at the end of it. Words just fail.

Ok, so if this surgery is being touted as life saving, where is the evidence? Present us with the stats. I have read that research has shown gender reassignment does not improve mental health outcomes (no I don't have the evidence to hand but perhaps someone does).

Access to medical care must he evidence based, that's nice guidelines. If the BBC wants to remain impartial they must deal in fact. Opinion and case study is fine but must be presented alongside impartial fact.

That thread 😳

"I used to be GC but I'm not any more because of THOSE GC women being such horrible bullies!"

Such a strange thing to say if you were actually GC.

"I used to be an atheist but because this particular group of atheists were big meanies, now I accept Jesus Christ as my lord and saviour"

Anyway, sorry for the derail!

I agree, the whole 'I believed in women having equality and children being safeguarded until I heard women being nasty, and now I don't' bit, is one of the sillier bingo squares that come up. If you're a proud sexist misogynist who wants to subordinate herself to men and doesn't believe in protecting children from men's sexual freedoms then you do you....

The main reason for the extremely long wait lists is that the services cannot recruit nor retain enough clinical staff.

This is because most medical and mental health professionals have spent many years in education and incurred lots of expense in doing so. They want to work in fields with evidenced based care, where patients come in with a symptom list and the HCP can fully assess and identify the problem from a range of differential diagnosis.
People presenting to a GIC in 2024 are there because they’ve already self-diagnosed as having a transgender identity. There is no space for thoughtful and diligent clinicians to fully exercise their hard earned expertise, they are there to give the illusion that the trans funnel is being adequately gate-kept.

There are currently only 4 NHS surgeons who are willing to flay a healthy penis and fashion a pseudo vagina from the skin. One is close to retirement (another died recently and one retired and they are not being replaced at the rate they are being lost). The more the bonkers-beliefs behind WPATH are known, the less likely qualified urological surgeons are going to want to take up this caseload.

You can’t force highly educated professionals into jobs they don’t want to do - there are plenty of non GIC related vacancies for doctors and psychologists in the NHS and beyond.

The new pilot services try to get around this by employing non-clinicians to do all the intake and ongoing pathway appointments with prescriptions and surgical referrals overseen by doctors who are spreading themselves way too thin for such a huge, complex and needy caseload. NHS England keeps chucking cash at the waiting lists but the whole thing is going to collapse eventually.

The main obstacle the NHS would have with doing away with gender services is a ye olde court ruling.

Otherwise it could be easily be justified as not value for money from the public purse (like hundreds of surgical procedures, medications and therapies have been). NICE couldn’t find anything to justify the expense the last time they looked.

From 1998:

A, D and G v N-W Lancashire Health Authority

http://www.pfc.org.uk/caselaw/High%20Court%20judgment%20in%20the%20case%20of%20A,%20D%20and%20G%20v%20North%20West%20Lancashire%20Health%20Authority.pdf

Those people must believe incredibly strongly that there is some female-bodied aspect required to be a woman, or male to be a man.

I wonder what data this is based on.

I believe the article in the OP is based on an FOI submitted by the BBC to the London Adult service at Tavistock in January:

https://tavistockandportman.nhs.uk/services/gender-identity-clinic-gic/

There is more info via a drop down that I can’t seem to get a direct URL for:

Bloody hell, I just turned BBC South news on and this seems to have been their LEAD regional news item! And it's a clutch of middle-aged blokes. Why did they wait so long to transition, and are now stamping their dainty feet because it's not happening AT ONCE, NOW? One of them decided to transition in 2019. I would imagine at least one reason for the delay in anything happening was Covid. God knows how many people died of cancer or other serious illnesses during that period because of what was going on. But no, it's more important to help some bloke in his 50's transition. One of the people interviewed was asked, given the NHS is on its knees, if they thought this was really that pressing an issue for the NHS. "well, it's not a competition", he said.

And lots of misty footage of one of the interviewees sitting at a window, head-tilt, gazing wistfully and sadly at a pot of orchids. Close up on immaculately manicured fingers delicately picking up a sadly withered orchid blossom, then deliberately (and sadly) crushing it in their absolutely tiny fist. You could not make up a cheesier pathetic fallacy.

Anyway, I'd like to know why BBC South chose to lead with this. Slow news day, obviously.

And lots of misty footage of one of the interviewees sitting at a window, head-tilt, gazing wistfully and sadly at a pot of orchids. Close up on immaculately manicured fingers delicately picking up a sadly withered orchid blossom, then deliberately (and sadly) crushing it in their absolutely tiny fist. You could not make up a cheesier pathetic fallacy

Please tell me you made this up! Please!

They didn't really do that did they??

I just saw this too. Four middle-aged people with five o'clock shadows in heavy make up with flowery tops and over styled hair. Numerous shots of their glittery nails and eyeshadow. There were literally violins playing in the background.

It was almost like a parody.

I do hope viewers wonder why the BBC can't find some middle-aged women in fleeces and work trousers with sad un-made up faces to interview about waiting for NHS gender treatment.

And yes, the withered flower crushing actually happened.

That is so OTT that I wonder if a closet Terf was working on that “news” item…

Yes, I wondered that too.

The contrast with the following two items which featured women with breast cancer and women in football was very striking.